Could atheist westerners, please explain?

[The Grand Nudger]

Now you're complaining that secularism could have done more?  More -of what- than what or whom....and isn't this a no shit statement regardless? Damn secularism for that anyway, and damn them for insisting that we put the bloody past of the generations that precede us, behind us. Damn them all to hell!

[WinterHold]

Now you're complaining that secularism could have done more?  More -of what- than what or whom....and isn't this a no shit statement regardless?  Damn secularism for that anyway, and damn them for insisting that we put the bloody past of the generations that precede us, behind us.  Damn them all to hell!

No, I'm actually saying that secularism allowed the most extreme acts to be executed, and the most corrupt and criminal politicians to be chosen to run the highest ranks of the state, let's not forget about the military institution that witnessed the same in most cases -since it follows the political opinion-.

Israel is our main topic, but you know that the Jewish state is currently targeted by American "Minuteman" missiles; it has a nuclear program after all so it must be targeted "just in case", I'm not saying that seculairm could do more, I'm saying that when you lose faith and take religion away, you end up in a hypocrite world.

I'm saying, that secularism could've do more, by doing less.
In regards of Israel, at least. I want to believe it was for religious reasons, but the Minuteman convinced me otherwise. What a mess.

Seculars could've done more, by doing less. A world without morals.

[The Grand Nudger]

You think that without the west's uncondontional support, isreal would be or would have been annihilated in a single day, and also that "secularism" should have done less.  Death to isreal, insha allah.  

So long as the pro-isreal faction has people like yourself to point to, to paint the entirety of the opposition with....the situation will persists as-is. So long as your clique insists on rambling like idiots, as above, you will not find a seat at the table if or when the situation does change.

[RobbyPants]

Now, I have a deep question to atheists.
How does the west sleep at night, knowing that such lie is in practice?

Figure, at least in the US, people have probably roughly one of four opinions on the matter:

1. They don't know anything about it and don't care.
   
2. They find the situation over there deplorable and do not see Israel as innocent.
   
3. They support Israel because they oppose Arabs (who are brown and scary, and also Muslim!).
   
4. They support Israel because this is bringing about the End Times ™, and they literally are trying to speed up the end of the world.
   

I'm in the second group. I'm well aware of "the lie", although I also don't lie the blame solely on Israel.

That fourth group scares the shit out of me. Appending "for Jesus" onto the end of "some people want to watch the world burn" doesn't make the situation any better.

[robvalue]

I'd love to know in what way I am personally promoting anything other than secularism, when I state that I am a secularist. It just means I support the idea of a secular government. I don't actually even have it, technically. Our system in England is a very weird hybrid which ends up mostly secular in practice but actually very much endorses one particular religion over another.

If people have a problem with the government of a certain country, or a particular group, or a particular mode of thought, or whatever... then complain about that. Don't lump in every atheist, secularist, sceptic, and anyone else you don't like the look of in with your criticism. Not if you want to be taken seriously, anyway.

I mean... if someone isn't a secularist, that means they don't want things being equal between religions. And that is exactly the problem. Bone headed religious wars are just what you'd expect from places where there are mostly non-secularists.

By the way, if there actually was a god, and it was on someone's side, would any "religious war" last longer than five seconds? No, didn't think so.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, isreal -did- beat the shit out of all comers at an awfully brisk pace Rob.....

[Ben Davis]

So did we ever bottom out exactly why 'western atheists' are responsible for an entirely religio-political situation?

[robvalue]

He did admit that was wrong, and instead he meant secularists.

I asked him how this made any difference, and he... said a load of stuff that didn't make any sense, treating every secularist as part of a hive-mind monolith responsible for and backing everything a secular government has ever done in the past. Even if they weren't aware it happened or weren't even born when it happened.

Just like we are careful to point out that Muslims aren't individuals, but are all in fact secret members of ISIS.

And, of course, he thinks that you can't be a theist and a secularist, which is completely wrong. But that would interfere with his gross generalisations.

[Pat Mustard]

No numbnuts it didn't. It was a combination of initial US and UK support followed up by continuing money and guns being funnelled in by countries such as Saudi Arabia and the UAE which created this accurate image of islam in our midst. You cannot blame the powerless for the monsters the powerful themselves created.

Poor world !
Actually, the united states dominated us, even Israel itself. It's not like I know nothing of the U.S & UK contributions to the creation of the two cancers in the Middle East:

-Arab Countries
-The Jewish state

Believe me, I'm very aware of sykes-picot.
and for the record, in here, I cited the British/Arabic role in creating this mess,o check my wikipedia quotes two comments back.

I'm turning insane, because I never relate. I don't belong anywhere.
But the world could've done more, if secularism as some claimed, care about equality and human rights.

Today, Sweden was sucking up the Sauds and apologizing for the statements of the brave foreign minister against the terrible human rights violations, but hey, it's secularism xD criticize yesterday, make up and apologize tommorow, no big deal !

Instead of shouting at me to fix your problems, why don't you look to fix them yourself, you lazy dumb fuck?

[robvalue]

Wait, isn't all this Allah's will anyway?

Why does he need the support of secularists in the West in order to perform his plan?

It seems like humans are the gods after all, because god's will only happens when it lines up with whatever our laws are at the time.