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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 9:14 am
(March 10, 2016 at 1:08 am)pool the great Wrote: (March 10, 2016 at 12:11 am)Jehanne Wrote: How do you know this? If someone has multiple personality disorder and cannot even control which "mind" is active in their brain at any given time, how can you say that such an individual has "free will". It's like saying that if a persona can add 2 + 2 and reach a conclusion of 4, then that person must have free will. Lots of animals, mammalian and reptile, form new algorithms all the time; even bacteria and virtues form new algorithms via natural selection. Are you saying that a virus has "free will"?
I think I didn't make myself clear.
The ability to form an algorithm to any given problem is called free will.
Can your bacteria form an algorithm to slap itself in the face?
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AP8yL1qBpw
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 9:30 am
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 9:31 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 9, 2016 at 11:11 pm)pool the great Wrote: If a human can form an algorithm then that human have free will.
Then computers also have this "free will"....and I'm not sure it makes any sense to call it that in the first place. Since what you describe is neither free, nor will.
Why not just say that human beings have the ability to form algorithms, rather than prevaricate? Course, we'd have to go back to those remarks you made about the difference between free will and ability, earlier in thread. Are we fucking logic again?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:01 pm
(March 10, 2016 at 9:30 am)Rhythm Wrote: (March 9, 2016 at 11:11 pm)pool the great Wrote: If a human can form an algorithm then that human have free will.
Then computers also have this "free will"....and I'm not sure it makes any sense to call it that in the first place. Since what you describe is neither free, nor will.
Why not just say that human beings have the ability to form algorithms, rather than prevaricate? Course, we'd have to go back to those remarks you made about the difference between free will and ability, earlier in thread. Are we fucking logic again?
You win on that free will -ability shenanigan.
I win on the free will is the ability to form an algorithm.
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:02 pm
(March 10, 2016 at 9:14 am)Jehanne Wrote: (March 10, 2016 at 1:08 am)pool the great Wrote: I think I didn't make myself clear.
The ability to form an algorithm to any given problem is called free will.
Can your bacteria form an algorithm to slap itself in the face?
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AP8yL1qBpw
Can your bacteria form an algorithm to break dance?
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:06 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 1:07 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Win? I thought you were trying to establish that you had free will, to convince -anyone- that your comments were factual and representative of reality. I think some clarification is required...are you retracting your previous statements regarding computers and ability in order to be able to claim that the ability to form an algorithm is somehow free or will or free will? Don't you think it might be necessary to show that you have a will, or that your will is free? Still awaiting an answer to a question on that count as well...how do you plan on convincing anyone, what demonstration will you be making, since you threw logic out of the window...or do we want a mulligan on that one as well?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:11 pm
(March 10, 2016 at 1:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Win? I thought you were trying to establish that you had free will, to convince -anyone- that your comments were factual and representative of reality. I think some clarification is required...are you retracting your previous statements regarding computers and ability in order to be able to claim that the ability to form an algorithm is somehow free or will or free will? Don't you think it might be necessary to show that you have a will, or that your will is free? Still awaiting an answer to a question on that count as well...how do you plan on convincing anyone, what demonstration will you be making, since you threw logic out of the window...or do we want a mulligan on that one as well?
Simple.
I define free will as the ability to form an algorithm to any given problem.
I demonstrate that humans are capable of forming an algorithm to any given problem and none else is.
I infer humans have free will.
I win.
About that free will - ability shenanigan, I admit I was wrong and you were right.
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:16 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 1:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I have nothing to do with what that, not an issue of me being right.....-you- made two contradictory statements. You're basically saying that you were wrong, and now are right. The first part is true by the standard I use, the second part you must demonstrate, somehow, I'm just not sure how you plan on doing that in light of your many comments.
I'd love to continue to explain the problems with your current claim, but I don't see any point unless you're back in the reason tent with me....if I explained to you how your current statement is still a failed argument...it won't matter much unless we're using the same standards.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:21 pm
(March 10, 2016 at 1:16 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I have nothing to do with what that, not an issue of me being right.....-you- made two contradictory statements. You're basically saying that you were wrong, and now are right. The first part is true by the standard I use, the second part you must demonstrate, somehow, I'm just not sure how you plan on doing that in light of your many comments.
I'd love to continue to explain the problems with your current claim, but I don't see any point unless you're back in the reason tent with me....if I explained to you how your current statement is still a failed argument...it won't matter much unless we're using the same standards.
Nah, I'm right about this one.
Free will is the ability to form an algorithm to any given problem. I don't think you can provide any objections to it..
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 1:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why are you right? I can't really object until I know what standard we're using. If the standard, for example...for determining the truth or even likely truth of a statement is;
"Because pool said so, repeatedly"
-then I guess I have no grounds to object.
Trouble is, in that scenario, objection or no....I still don't believe your claim any more than I did the first time you made it. Could we get some clarification on the standard?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free will and humans
March 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm
Simple.
I define free will as the ability to form an algorithm to any given problem.
I demonstrate that humans are capable of forming an algorithm to any given problem and none else is.
I infer humans have free will.
I win.
What is your objection to that ^
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