Heaven seems awful 2 me-"Theist laughs at loudly & with great cruelty"

[The Grand Nudger]

Silence heretic.  GC hath spoken.  

[Pat Mustard]

GC, I think you need to back away from that one. The correct biblical category for sexual slavers would be the wicked or unrighteous, not unbelievers.

No I do believe a correct reading of the bible will show that sexual slavers belong in the category of "righteous under god", seeing as he did (according to the bible) demand that the jews make sex slaves out of the captured daughters of their enemies.

Well, what do you know, two repulsive activites approved of by the "objectively moral" god, kill your neighbour and sexually abuse his daughter.

[robvalue]

Yeah, the bible makes no bones about owning women, owning slaves, and having sex with your property.

If you intend to get your morality from the bible then just ignore what it says when it doesn't agree with your own morality, I don't know why you bother with it in the first place.

I'm still unsure how what happened 150 years ago should be "let go" but what happened 2000 years ago is extremely relevant. Does it depend on convenience to the speaker?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

What's your evidence for this?

 Think about it, do you really believe that those who believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong that we would actually promote the sex trade. Yes, I know there are Christians that watch porn, that have affairs, and some who abuse children, these are the exceptions and not the main stream of Christians. The Christian church works to rescue those sold into slavery and travel around the world to do so. The church works to promote education against the sex slave trade and as far as I know was the first organization to take serious action against it. Now states like mine are involved in stopping the sex slave trade, we have some of the toughest laws against it and they will pay dearly when caught practicing the sex trade. The Christian church in it's efforts to stop the sex trade has influenced others to stop it. So with this understanding who's left to promote the sex slave trade..... unbelievers are the only choice, there only two sides to this and the Christians as a whole fight against it.

GC

I haven't read the last couple of pages of this thread, so someone may have already answered this, but I feel the need to stop and respond, here.

The "sex trade" is not the same thing as "sex trafficking". And many humanist/atheist groups stand up against it, too. Indeed, many of us would argue that it is the Christian-derived approach to thinking of sex workers as "sinful" that leads to much of the potential for abuse. But the simple fact is, all people of good will, regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), are opposed to sex trafficking and slavery, and it was a scumbag move to imply what you just did.

Here's one (of several) articles from The Humanist, on the subject:

http://thehumanist.com/magazine/january-...roundswell

Here's an article by a humanist about the way your attitude toward sexual "morality" actually makes things worse:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/...52158.html

[Godscreated]

 Think about it, do you really believe that those who believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong that we would actually promote the sex trade. Yes, I know there are Christians that watch porn, that have affairs, and some who abuse children, these are the exceptions and not the main stream of Christians. The Christian church works to rescue those sold into slavery and travel around the world to do so. The church works to promote education against the sex slave trade and as far as I know was the first organization to take serious action against it. Now states like mine are involved in stopping the sex slave trade, we have some of the toughest laws against it and they will pay dearly when caught practicing the sex trade. The Christian church in it's efforts to stop the sex trade has influenced others to stop it. So with this understanding who's left to promote the sex slave trade..... unbelievers are the only choice, there only two sides to this and the Christians as a whole fight against it.

GC

Well it's nice to see you are pulling your evidence from the same place you pulled your assertion, namely your ass.  Even if some Christians oppose the sex trade, there's still plenty in absolute numbers to support it.  You neglect the fact that Christians outnumber atheists by a wide margin.  This is an example of the base rate fallacy in which you overlook the relative abundance of a phenomenon in calculating odds about it.  So even if your rationalizations had some basis in reality, they'd still be wrong.

 That's just plain crazy, how many times have I heard it from atheist that the majority doesn't matter when it comes to anything and Christians do not support the slave trade and what I said above is factual.

GC

[Godscreated]

I didn't say atheist were organized in an effort to sell children into sexual slavery. I'm saying that birds of a feather flock together. Since Christians are not envolved in selling children into sexual slavery, then the birds must by necessity be unbelievers.

GC

GC, I like you as a person, and have a good deal of respect for you. But, that was easily one of the most ridiculously naive statements I have ever witnessed anyone make on these entire forums. You should be embarrassed that you've allowed yourself get to caught up in tit-for-tat and one-upsmanship to the point of being willing to post such ignorant musings, just to feel vindicated.

 I thank you for your respect. I'm not sure what you mean unless you think I'm putting all atheist in the same basket, I'm not, not even close. If you read all the post I have answered you would see that I said this to someone else. When people gang up on me I sometimes try to answer all the post I can and get into a hurry and say a thing or two that's not quite right. Let me ask you this, do you believe the Christian church or even individual Christians are selling children into sexual slavery? Have a good weekend and will look for your reply on Monday.

GC

[Aroura]

Majority argument fails when trying to appeal to it as if the majority means it is correct.

Pointing out that lots of people do a thing in and of itself, if factual, is not the same thing at all.

Most people believe in gods, therefore gods must be real = logical fallacy
Many Christians believe that slavery is ok, and still practice it = just a fact
Or let's use a different example.
The world is round because most people believe it is round = logical fallacy (it is round, but that is not a sound argument as the why)
Most humans now believe in a round earth = a perfectly sound statement that can be backed up with statistics.

See the difference?

[The Grand Nudger]

"Not quite right"?

Try "couldn't be more wrong".

That christians are selling children into sexual slavery is not an issue that requires belief. We know that they are..they've been caught and convicted. I know, I know...you don't think that any True Christian™ could do "x"...but here you are, claiming to be christian while simultaneously just being yourself....so....meh.

[Godscreated]

 Typical, NTS are these answers, no just the rant of those who can't argue a post. I'm telling you once again that I made statements about me and how I differ from some. Why didn't you address the statement I made about you and the Holy Spirit and then criticize others, did the statement need this, then here it is ?

GC

Why don't you tell me how a person, raised Christian, baptized in a Southern Baptist Church at the age of 7, went to church 3x per week plus Sunday School and Vacation Bible School and Choir Practice, attended a Protestant Christian School, memorized the Bible daily, and prayed daily for over 40 years to feel something - anything - never experienced the "Holy Spirit" in any way?  
   C'mon.  Tell me I was never a Christian.  Tell me I read the Bible the "wrong" way.  Tell me I never learned to pray properly.  

Okay I'll tell you, you were never saved, you were going through the motions, I have an opinion on why but I'm not going to express it at this time. You didn't read the Bible the wrong way, and you probably prayed as you were taught, but neither of those were effective because you weren't saved, Jesus only sends the Holy Spirit to convict the lost and then to teach those who are saved. Now you tell me why have I heard from the Holy Spirit on many occasions and received answers from Him that could not possibly come from myself or anyone else because I didn't know the answer nor those I asked?

And you have still completely ignored my other question.  If the Holy Spirit provides guidance to anyone who is studying the scriptures prayerfully, why are there so many conflicting interpretations of scripture within the Protestant Church, and how can you judge any pastor who disagrees with your interpretation to be "wrong" and not hearing the Holy Spirit.  The verses either mean what they say, or they don't.  If the Holy Spirit is guiding, he's giving different information to everyone he guides.  This isn't guidance.  This is deliberate creation of anarchy and chaos.

I never said they were not hearing the Holy Spirit, I told 'rob' I think it was him, that Christians to often go into the scriptures with preconceived ideas and let that override what the Holy Spirit is teaching or the adopt part of what the Holy Spirit says into their preconceived ideas just to make a stronger case for themselves. I've done it before and was shown I was wrong and changed my belief because it was the right thing to do. Serving God is not about the self, unfortunately many Christians can't see this. The two underlined words above in your post are by me and they are against who God is, so it's not possible for the Holy Spirit to do such things, this is taught many places in scripture and if you have most of the Bible memorized then you know this. I wish I had that good of a memory, I'm being honest about this statement.

I'm expecting more judgment and insults . . . you'll say I was wrong, they were wrong, we're all stupid and deluded, then you'll stick your nose in the air and go tell your friends how you told off those stupid atheists.

 I have told people about some conversations I've had on here and I'm sure you have also. Be sure of this this conversation want go any further than this forum. I'm not judging you you need to get over that little thing, I'm telling you what the Bible says. I'm not going to say you're stupid but I will say the evil one has deluded you, he found that your anger was the perfect place to get at you. I do not know why you're so angry at me, other Christians and God, I have an idea, something I've seen before. I will say this and let it go at that and I mean no disrespect towards you, God still loves you.
Have a good weekend and I'll read your post on Monday if you decide to answer.

GC

[Godscreated]

GC, I think you need to back away from that one. The correct biblical category for sexual slavers would be the wicked or unrighteous, not unbelievers.

 I didn't want to call them wicked and unrighteous, but that's what anyone is as you say that deals in the sex slave trade. I wasn't referring to anyone here, but you know as well as I do that a Christian can't do such a thing. I'm sure there are people who call themselves Christians that deal in the sex slave trade, but those people are also the wicked and unrighteous and that means they couldn't be Christians. If I'm not mistaken any who reject Christ are called the wicked and unrighteous.

GC