Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism

[abaris]

The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds that the rational interests of men do not clash—that there is no conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned, who do not make sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value."

Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness, 1964

As with every philosophy/ideology, it might work in a perfect world where everybody's toeing the line. But humans are individuals, and there's more.

How can the heir of a large fortune claim to have earned what they own? The only thing going for them is the coincidence of birth. How can someone working two or three jobs and barely scratch a living, not desire the so called unearned? They aren't in that situation by choice but because noone grants them their place in society, which would collapse if they weren't there to do their jobs. So, I go even as far as to claim that the ones working two or three jobs for a pittance are more important than the heir, when it comes to humanity.

[thesummerqueen]

Also, what do we decide is "unearned?"

Many people believe that healthcare is unearned, and yet I suspect that most of the people on this board believe that it is a human right in some form or fashion - if only because taking care of our entire country's health is a net benefit for everyone involved, even if it costs a few extra dollars out of everyone's paycheck. Even the very poor benefit from this, as when they're suddenly stricken they can take advantage of that safety net and not become even more impoverished by the exorbitant medical fees this country charges.

And values change over time. At one point, wifi would have seemed like a luxury which 'moochers' took advantage of if they could. Now it's expected because access to the internet and connectivity are increasingly necessary *across the socio-economic board* in this day and age, and most providers are creating false scarcities in order to drive up their profits (at least, they are here in NC, and thank god Google is coming to town). Everyone from school children to the President need access to this service. At some point we're just going to have to accept that video-streaming-capable wireless is something we're all going to need the same way clean water is expected in every city (sorry Flint MI).

The problem arises when a prior generation who lived without those services and was used to dealing without them decides they're not necessary solely because "back in my day" and calls people lazy and freeloaders and spoiled. No. Just because you managed to live without it when your culture wasn't set up for it doesn't make it a luxury when it's now the way everyone functions.

The quality of life for the planet, by and large, continues to improve (except for climate change, fuck) as industry kicks on and for the most part humans are raised in a level of prosperity that would have made Solomon blush, all because of socialized programs that give people a more equal chance when they start and continue through life and which benefit all of us - public education, public roads, public water, public art, public parks, etc. We have to stop falling into the false-scarcity trap. There are plenty of situations and instances where capitalism works, but Rand's extreme version of it is the worst vision of what America and England already tried during the two waves of the Industrial Revolution - when eventually many regulatory bodies and social programs were also put in place to mitigate the effects.

[bennyboy]

A thought I had was that less altruism is happening currently not because people are any more or less nice to each other but the average number of hours of free time we spend with friends in general has gone down.  It's seems like you would have overall less opportunities to be kind to people when you spend less time with them.  

I'm not sure that helping friends is counted as altruism anyway, since there are obvious personal benefits to helping your friends.

But maybe in the end that's actually a good point-- even though say a fellow American isn't known by you, you might be helping him because you see both of you as part of a community.  So by my definition, that's not REALLY altruism, it's a kind of very indirect selfishness-- there's always a chance that fellow American will come to your aid at some point, just because you're both American.

[bennyboy]

The quality of life for the planet, by and large, continues to improve (except for climate change, fuck) as industry kicks on and for the most part humans are raised in a level of prosperity 

I'm not sure this is actually true.  How do you define quality of life?  In medicine and roadways?

What about in real liberty-- the right not to be shot in the face?  How about the ability to taste strawberries that are strawberry-sized and actually taste of strawberry?

And you mention a pretty long list of great things, and then the caveat: ". . . but only the environment."

But isn't the environment, ultimately, going to be worth all those other things you mentioned, and more, when we our grandchildren are choking on our filth?

[thesummerqueen]

Strawberries still taste like strawberries to me, and so do schnozberries.

Have you read "The Better Angels of our Nature"?

[bennyboy]

Strawberries still taste like strawberries to me, and so do schnozberries.

Have you read "The Better Angels of our Nature"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/books/....html?_r=0

A pretty good preface to it if anyone else is interested.

It's a very interesting idea.  I'd have to read the book to see if it's just bias from a Western developed countryman's view.

re: strawberries
My grandfather had a garden of strawberries. They were little, super-sweet things. The ones now are like half a pound, and taste mainly of water.

[thesummerqueen]

You're buying the wrong strawberries.

Pinker dotted his i's and crossed his t's. Statistics bear out about life in general getting better.

[bennyboy]

You're buying the wrong strawberries.

Yeah, I'm in Korea. Don't know if good strawberries are going to happen.

Pinker dotted his i's and crossed his t's. Statistics bear out about life in general getting better.

I've heard that name so many times. Maybe I need to break down and buy a book or two.

[The Grand Nudger]

You can grow them from roots or crowns online.   All you need is a light vertical stepped structure filled with coco peat, a quality hydro nutrient solution, super low ph, and a bunch of baking soda (to mist the foliage with when fungus and mold inevitably crop up).  

If you can fit the structure through your door...you can get the crowns  past their vegetative phase outside....then bring them inside to the AC to chill them down, slow them down, and sweeten the berry after flowering.   You couldn't find a berry like this will produce in a store. They're delicious, but they don't keep well off the stem...the sucrose content and ph make them go soft and rot faster. Pretty much as big as you want them to be. More water is bigger, less is smaller.

The reason your store bought berries suck, comparatively, is because a trade has been made in the producers favor, so that a large..impatient... consumer base can be supported. Basically, he maxes out the water uptake to hedge against loss, but also puts them out in the window which takes the least amount of time to get them out of his field, which makes them water balloons that haven't had the time to fully develop a high sugar content. They're then picked partially green, to avoid bruising during packaging and transport, and increase the amount of time they can spend in the grocers cooler before they go bad. All of this in the context of what is likely a mixed cropping plan, in which the abnormally low ph value for strawberries (sweet ones in particular) would interfere with his previous or successive planting, in addition to incurring greater overall production costs regarding swift changes in ph and ph management. So it's left a little more alkaline, preventing the strawberries from becoming as sweet as they would be in the first place.

OTOH, we can get a passable strawberry anywhere in the world at any time at an affordable price. Yet another example of life getting better across the board. We might complain that the berries aren't as sweet..but at least there are berries to eat now. By the by, I trialed a few new strawberry cultivars for UF a few years back. Sweet doesn't adequately describe them. They're oversweet...which I guess is the point, they're being produced to support operations like the one described above. Comes out just right in the balance of things.

[thesummerqueen]

Which is shit because half of them go rotten from impatient assholes not buying them anyway.

Our food system is fucked. Bunch of goddamn business and marketing majors running it.