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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 7, 2011 at 5:51 pm
(June 7, 2011 at 1:19 am)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:are kinda weird, but are normal people citizens who deserve all the rights I afford myself granted by the constitution.
I guess this is as close as I can get.
Actually I agree with Minimalist here. A family member is in a gay marriage (legal) now; no one in our (direct) family has cut her off or thinks anything particularly special about it. She is even a Deaconess in her (Christian) church.
I assume the post is from the USA. The Constitution does not "grant" rights, as the USA's Declaration of Independence states rights are "inalienable." (Bad usage, should have been "unalienable.") The Constitution says the government will "guarantee" (protect) rights. Big difference. Rights do not derive from Government (though they can be squelched by one). (And no, they don't derive from a religious source, either.)
"Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 7, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Personally I find the subject tragically funny as homosexuality predates christianity. In ancient Greece, there really was no distinction between homo and hetero, it was just sex. Honestly from my perspective, I could care less, let them marry, let them adopt, as long as it is two consenting adults I don't see the problem.
"In our youth, we lacked the maturity, the decency to create gods better than ourselves so that we might have something to aspire to. Instead we are left with a host of deities who were violent, narcissistic, vengeful bullies who reflected our own values. Our gods could have been anything we could imagine, and all we were capable of manifesting were gods who shared the worst of our natures."-Me
"Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, even if religion vanished; but religious superstition dismounts all these and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men." – Francis Bacon
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 7, 2011 at 6:16 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2011 at 6:18 pm by Anymouse.)
(June 7, 2011 at 5:54 pm)SleepingDemon Wrote: Personally I find the subject tragically funny as homosexuality predates christianity.
I don't find it tragically funny, just tragic. Atheism, paganism, and many other things predate Christianity as well, and that didn't stop them from using Leviticus or some other justification for marginalizing/killing them as well.
To use the logical fallacy Argumentum ad Hitlerium: Hitler was a Christian. He invoked God as his cause and motivation in Mein Kampf.
"Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 7, 2011 at 9:13 pm
(June 7, 2011 at 5:27 pm)Cinjin Cain Wrote: On a side note: I find it interesting that none of the Muslims on our forum have cast a vote in the poll.
Sorry, I was hesitating to reply because I have mixed feelings about homosexuality. I didn't know what to say. On the one hand, I think that homosexuals are a little different from the rest but they still deserve all the rights that I can afford myself. On the other hand, the Quran says that homosexuality is a sin that is even punishable (but not by death). So, this means that Islam considers homosexuality as a bad thing. But the Quran doesn't say to kill the gays.
And secondly, an important distinction needs to be made which is that the feeling of homosexuality itself is not considered to be sinful - it is only when you act upon the feeling that it becomes a sin (such as making physical penetration with the same gender or even marrying them) - and that's what I believe as well. So, that's why I didn't cast a vote in the poll because it's the action of the homosexual that matters. I'm somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd options.
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 7, 2011 at 10:04 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2011 at 10:04 pm by Anymouse.)
(June 7, 2011 at 6:16 pm)Anymouse Wrote: I don't find it tragically funny, just tragic. Atheism, paganism, and many other things predate Christianity as well, and that didn't stop them from using Leviticus or some other justification for marginalizing/killing them as well.
To use the logical fallacy Argumentum ad Hitlerium: Hitler was a Christian. He invoked God as his cause and motivation in Mein Kampf.
I left something out of my assertion. It should read: Hitler was a Christian. He invoked God as his cause and motivation to kill Jews and gays and the disabled and the Roma, &c. Therefore, Christians are justified in the same behaviour because Hitler did it and he was Christian.
"Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 7, 2011 at 11:59 pm
Quote:But the Quran doesn't say to kill the gays.
+1 for the Koran, Rayaan.
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 8, 2011 at 12:01 am
(June 7, 2011 at 11:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:But the Quran doesn't say to kill the gays.
+1 for the Koran, Rayaan.
Brings it to a score of =
-1,999
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 8, 2011 at 1:01 am
See this is why I don't bother being nice....what's the point? They are still nearly 2000 points in the shitter.
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 8, 2011 at 1:27 am
@ Cinjin - Yes I understood your point.
you'll notice the "v." in a dictionary denotes a verb form.
Damn grammer nazis ... 
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: Pray Away the Gay
June 8, 2011 at 2:10 am
(June 8, 2011 at 1:01 am)Minimalist Wrote: See this is why I don't bother being nice....what's the point? They are still nearly 2000 points in the shitter.
Well, that wouldn't be the score only if you guys understood the Quran.
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