I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?

[Mariosep]

Thanks everyone for your presence and contribution to this my thread.


Here are the reactions of dear atheist colleagues to my recent proposals:

Reactions to my proposal for atheists to contemplate on how their papa and mama caused them to come to existence and life:

Has this progressed at all since I last posted here? It looks like this guy is still spinning.
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Graphic of a broken record
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If I based a concept off of the old folklore that faeries lived in mushroom rings, and I encountered a mushroom ring in objective reality, is it safe for me to assume that faeries exist?
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Well I'm not up for bitch slapping him tonight. I'll leave it to my capable colleagues.
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I've contemplated your posts and concluded that you have no credible empirical evidence for your alleged god.  Without that evidence, it's pointless to talk about causation because no causative agent has been identified yet.
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I'm guessing he's been banned elsewhere for spamming the same post the whole time.

Reactions to my proposal for atheists to try simple things like proving the nail has an inventor:

Nails were invented by people and so was your concept of god.
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Sure. After you explain to us why it is so difficult for you to read and understand what we are telling you.

[ More to follow. ]


Later.

[pocaracas]

I think I know!
Yeah... it's the only thing he'll understand... of course!! It's so obvious!!


Dear Mario, here is my reply to your original post, quoted verbatim from page 1.

Hello Mario!
We're going to have some fun with words! Ready?

This is my proof for God existing.

To call some words "proof" is a bit rash, don't you think?

1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

I don't get why you didn't stop at "universe", but alright... let's go along with that...

2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

Not a solipsist, I see....
I think you need to define causation, here.
What is an "instance of causation"? The moment when something causes something else? When something with energy imparts some of that energy on something else?
But where does all the previously existing energy come from? What caused the energy to exist?
Remember Lavoisier? "Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed."
Nothing that we see is a creation of energy... only transforming one form of energy into another.... and energy is like mass, you know E=mc^2, right?

So.... "causation"... what does it mean?

3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

Do we?... maybe...
If by causation you mean energy transfer, yes.
If by causation you mean energy generation, no.

Now that those two things have been properly distinguished, let's continue.

4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.

We do?
No we don't. Why would we do such a rash, potentially dishonest, thing?

Can your little head not wrap itself around the concept of infinity? Infinite time backwards... it's not impossible, but it's difficult to grasp, I'll grant you that.
Or the concept of timelessness, a state of affairs in which time is non-existent... actions do not exist, causation is meaningless. Personally, I don't like this possibility... but it can't be ruled out.

5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

- Get ready to load up the concept of God with iron-age tales!!

6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

Wasn't that number 5? Repetition serves no purpose, here...

What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?

Well, I think it's lacking on substance... an actual god, you know?
Also, it could do with a bit more of an open mind - there are countless possibilities for how the Universe came about and most don't posit the existence of a special conscious entity to do it.

And finally, words matter. Words with multiple meanings are dangerous in the wrong hands.
Words like: causation, truth, belief and theory can be twisted along an argument to mean something different from what they mean at the start of the argument... take care with those.
Keep your eyes open for those word traps.

[Tonus]

What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?

Sounds like a re-working of the Kalam argument, which requires us to accept a lot of things about God that cannot be known.

If we accept the premise and conclusion then we end up reasonably certain that God exists, but not absolutely certain.

If we grant that the conclusion is true and that God exists, we reach a conclusion that is shared by pretty much every theist. So it has that going for it. Now all you need is for all of those theists to sit down and figure out who that God is and what she wants. Otherwise, you have a God that created everything and then went away. Or worse, a God who occasionally meddles in human affairs but will not reveal itself and guide humanity out of its spiritual darkness. And that sounds like a wicked God.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Let me try something to try and communicate to him in his own language.



@Mariosep



You no read our posts

You no repeat.

We bored now.

You must say new things.

Then we interest again.

[Primordial Bisque]

Dear atheists, I find proving God is so simple, and I show it simple in my OP, click on page 1 to read my proof in the OP; here I will summarize it quickly:

I posit the concept of God, namely, in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

With the concept in my mind I proceed to the objective reality of existence and I find countless instances of causation.

All of the instances of causation are evidence of God's presence and action.

Therefore God exists as the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning – the evidence shows it to be so.

What evidence? All I who is someone who is using one concept to justify another concept that was born from human imagination. You never actually explain what this god is, other than tossing around a few relational attributes (ex. creator and operator) which don't give it any substance.

To prove God exists is as simple as proving the nail has an inventor, I mean the nail that we hammer on to bind two pieces of wood together, that it has an inventor – of course if you will, we can talk also about the nail in our fingers and toes.

Proving God exists is also simple with us knowing  that babies are caused by their papas and mamas, and that fact brings the intelligent mind of man to infer ultimately to the existence and action of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

Try proving that the nail has an inventor, you find that difficult or even impossible?

We can actually observe nails being made, either by machines or people. There's no reason to prove it. Every part of the nail making process can be observed.

Okay, tell me why you find it so difficult and even impossible to prove God exists.

Because no god has ever been detected or observed. There is no direct evidence of a god. It is all concepts, imaginings, meaningless attributes, equivocations, and overall irrationality.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Okay, tell me why you find it so difficult and even impossible to prove God exists.

Because God does not exist.

[Whateverist]

Finally rested up and ready to contribute to this here fine academic discussion.


https://youtu.be/HOQ6aaxsSlw

[pocaracas]

ooOOO slapping?...

[Whateverist]

Dayum! That Tyrion's slapping is as repetitive as Merryoldtwat's (AKA the OP) posting.

[brewer]

Let me try something to try and communicate to him in his own language.



@Mariosep



You no read our posts

You no repeat.

We bored now.

You must say new things.

Then we interest again.

jesus christ. Stop scaring me. Please tell me you haven't been infected.