What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?

[Amarok]

Wow for a site that suppose to deal with atheists it does a shit job. As for Heisenberg who cares  quoting the personnel opinions of a scientist does not a case make .

---

http://the-formula.org/ndes-absolutely-p...ng-brains/

So what about this link that addresses my skepticism above? You're not really doing much to address what I'm saying. Perhaps point me to the specific part where it is shown that NDEs occur without chemicals being released in the body.

Spoilers the site does not refute shit .

---

I did a google search on the quote. It seems that Helsenberg did actually say that. Here is another site if you are interested:   http://the-formula.org/how-to-deal-with-...-atheists/

I'll get back to you on your link. Meanwhile...

Misattributed [to Heisenberg]

[actual source]
The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.
“Der erste Trunk aus dem Becher der Naturwissenschaft macht atheistisch, aber auf dem Grund des Bechers wartet Gott.” in 15 Jahrhunderte Würzburg: e. Stadt u. ihre Geschichte [15 centuries Würzburg. A city and its history] (1979), p. 205, by Heinz Otremba.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg

As for the Heisenberg quote he never uttered those words thou he did believe physics lead to a god and Isaac Newton believed in alchemy. Scientist are not prophets who's personnel views are to be confused with science.

[He lives]

There are 8 witnesses to an accident. Each one has a different story to tell. Each one has a different perspective of the accident. Does that mean the accident didn't happen? Of course not. The same is true for NDEs. Thousands of people throughout the world have had NDEs and they did happen. Much like the accident people who have NDEs have different perspectives of what happened. However there is enough correlating evidence to prove that NDEs do happen. There is also evidence that the spirit leaves the body when a person dies.

[drfuzzy]

Say . . . what?  Yeah, maybe I am dense.  That made absolutely NO sense.
A "deity", according to some books of fables, supposedly walked on the planet 2000 years ago.  We understand 2000 years very well.  That's time.  It's a numerical measure of the earth's rotation.  Yes, science is restricted by time.  Every creature, every plant, the earth itself, the solar system, is measured by time.

This does not make time a 4th dimension, it is a measurement only.  And that measurement provides absolutely no data applicable to the existence of any deity.

You are a fool who would argue me if I said the sky is blue, and then at the end conclude the sky is blue. 1/2 the time you speak you loose yourself or start out not understanding what I was saying.

I simply said science is a three dimensional form of observation. The I pointed out anything outside this scope is beyond the purview of science. Then I made examples using time as a measure or dimension that take all of what science 'knows' and turns it on it's ear. Because once a subject becomes lost to time science stops being a tool of precision and accuracy and then becomes a guessing game. This is true even if you take the standard 3 dimensions and put one outside of our ablity to observe it.

Which means 'science' can ever hope to catalog and define a simple fraction of the what is and what was.

Why did I use the word dimension to define time as a point of measure, because the term defines a measurable extent and time is measurable, yet out puts knoweledge outside the scope of almighty science and it's worshipers. Making anyone who lay claim to times and knowledge beyond the abilities of all might 'science' men of great faith.

di·men·sion
dəˈmen(t)SH(ə)n,dīˈmen(t)SH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   a measurable extent of some kind, such as length, breadth, depth, or height.
   "the final dimensions of the pond were 14 ft. x 8 ft"
   synonyms:
   size, measurements, proportions, extent; More
   
   
   
   
   

Matthew 5:22
Of course, the verse doesn't prevent me from calling you an illiterate closet-minded moron with the IQ of a brain-damaged chihuahua.  Actually, since the book is total trash, it doesn't prevent me from anything, you're the one who seems to think that the so-called words of your godboy have any meaning.

In post #581, you said:  "Our planet is 3 dimensional yes, but our existence is 4. The fourth being time. without the measure time the objects defined by the measure of length width and height are frozen in place. So again yes while science can indeed well define the objects found readily in the three dimensions it has no protocol to account for what s lost to time, besides guessing"

This post is so badly constructed that it is impossible to be certain which fantasy you're rambling about this time. (pun intended)
We exist in three dimensions.  Time is not, and never has been, (in our solar system anyway) a "fourth dimension".  Time is simply a numerical measure of the movement of the earth and has no bearing or influence upon the three dimensions. H,L,W.  (As the article I posted clearly stated.)  To someone who is uneducated, time is measured by the "movement" of the sun and moon.  "Lost to time" makes no sense - either something from the past has been saved in some medium, or it is no longer accessible.  Science does not "guess" - it extrapolates probabilities from the available data - what can be gleaned from the past that has been saved in some medium.  You seem to be implying that science cannot provide any information about things "lost to time", or that time contains some sort of "spiritual information" that science can't access.  

Have you been hanging out with Rik and taking some psychedelic mushrooms?

---

There are 8 witnesses to an accident. Each one has a different story to tell. Each one has a different perspective of the accident. Does that mean the accident didn't happen? Of course not. The same is true for NDEs. Thousands of people throughout the world have had NDEs and they did happen. Much like the accident people who have NDEs have different perspectives of what happened. However there is enough correlating evidence to prove that NDEs do happen. There is also evidence that the spirit leaves the body when a person dies.

Sure, sure.  (patting loony on the head)
Thousands of people have had NDE's, because when death approaches, the brain function is gradually impaired by the loss of oxygen levels, etc.
Millions of people have tried to prove that a soul exists because we're so egotistical that we can't imagine a universe continuing without our consciousness in it.  And hundreds of studies have been run trying to prove that SOMETHING exists the body at death.  No results yet.

Let us know when the scientists come up with something credible. (Oh, and stories from NDE believer sites don't qualify.)
You enjoy your fantasies about NDE's and your little conversations with your imaginary friend.  You obviously desperately need the comfort of delusions.  I'll keep believing that neither exists until there is solid scientific proof.

[Silver]

There is also evidence that the spirit leaves the body when a person dies.

Incorrect. There is not even any evidence of a spirit residing in the human body.

[He lives]

There are 8 witnesses to an accident. Each one has a different story to tell. Each one has a different perspective of the accident. Does that mean the accident didn't happen? Of course not. The same is true for NDEs. Thousands of people throughout the world have had NDEs and they did happen. Much like the accident people who have NDEs have different perspectives of what happened. However there is enough correlating evidence to prove that NDEs do happen. There is also evidence that the spirit leaves the body when a person dies.

Sure, sure.  (patting loony on the head)
Thousands of people have had NDE's, because when death approaches, the brain function is gradually impaired by the loss of oxygen levels, etc.
Millions of people have tried to prove that a soul exists because we're so egotistical that we can't imagine a universe continuing without our consciousness in it.  And hundreds of studies have been run trying to prove that SOMETHING exists the body at death.  No results yet.

Let us know when the scientists come up with something credible. (Oh, and stories from NDE believer sites don't qualify.)
You enjoy your fantasies about NDE's and your little conversations with your imaginary friend.  You obviously desperately need the comfort of delusions.  I'll keep believing that neither exists until there is solid scientific proof.

Bold added.

Please let me know when there is credible proof that NDEs are caused by oxygen levels. Please let me know when there is proof that life came about by happenstance. Logic should tell you that our bodies must have been designed. Miracles happen every day.

[The Grand Nudger]

 Logic My religious beliefs should tell you that our bodies must have been designed.

FTFY, and they do....but you're not talking to people who share your religious beliefs....even the other christer in thread thinks you're wrong about those....so....?

[He lives]

There is also evidence that the spirit leaves the body when a person dies.

Incorrect.  There is not even any evidence of a spirit residing in the human body.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...e-says-yes

[The Grand Nudger]

Page 69, yall..btw.  Congratulations to everyone for their service to the boards.

[Silver]

Incorrect.  There is not even any evidence of a spirit residing in the human body.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...e-says-yes

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversa...rain-54828

Why psychology lost its soul: everything comes from the brain.

But as a neuroscientist and psychologist, I have no use for the soul. On the contrary, all functions attributable to this kind of soul can be explained by the workings of the brain.

[drfuzzy]

Sure, sure.  (patting loony on the head)
Thousands of people have had NDE's, because when death approaches, the brain function is gradually impaired by the loss of oxygen levels, etc.
Millions of people have tried to prove that a soul exists because we're so egotistical that we can't imagine a universe continuing without our consciousness in it.  And hundreds of studies have been run trying to prove that SOMETHING exists the body at death.  No results yet.

Let us know when the scientists come up with something credible. (Oh, and stories from NDE believer sites don't qualify.)
You enjoy your fantasies about NDE's and your little conversations with your imaginary friend.  You obviously desperately need the comfort of delusions.  I'll keep believing that neither exists until there is solid scientific proof.

Bold added.

Please let me know when there is credible proof that NDEs are caused by oxygen levels. Please let me know when there is proof that life came about by happenstance. Logic should tell you that our bodies must have been designed. Miracles happen every day.

You have been given dozens of sources on the biological realities behind NDE's, dozens of corrections to your extremely blatant and obvious lack of scientific knowledge and your ignorance of evolution in this thread.  You have proved absolutely that you are not here to learn anything and that you will not even consider that your statements have no basis in fact.  Miracles do not happen, ever.  Our bodies were "designed" by natural selection and currently show proof of that process in our DNA and in the multiple design flaws that exist due to that natural selection.  

There is no god, no afterlife, no spirits, no demons, no ghosts, no devil, no angels, no souls, no sparkly vampires or zombies.  
Yet here you are, spouting the same ignorance you started - what, back on post 165 or before?  Why in the world would you just keep repeating the same moronic bullshit AFTER being told dozens of times - I DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD OR IN YOUR SILLY NDE FANTASIES???  Do you really think spewing "NDE, happenstance (lol), design, miracles" will do any good?  Do you think that by posting it over and over like a mantra will suddenly make your silly little imaginary god show up in my living room?