Question to theists

[LadyForCamus]

It sounds like the squeak of a tiny, angry mole shaking its teensy weensy mole paw fist.

[LadyForCamus]

What you and GC don’t seem to understand is that wishing something were true is not a reason to believe that it is. Personal preferences are not reasons, and they shouldn’t be reasoned from either.  Reality cares not a lick about my subjective desires.  As soon as you guys hear an atheist say they wish god was real, you think that my wishing of it can be used as a way to persuade me into belief.  Is that how it started for you, MK?  You really, really wanted it to be true, and you worked your way backward from there?

The trial all starts with love, you have to want God to exist, and if you love him, it's incumbent on him to manifest himself and prove himself.

Yeah, you start with a belief that a god exists, and that he’s putting us all through some kind of trial, and then attempt (and fail) to rationalize it after the fact.  That is fallacious logic and I think you know that.

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GodscreatedThere is no other nor could there be no better, it's not just you but Christians alike that do not fully understand God. Christians have learned more about Him and understand Him better because they want to and He is teaching us. You want a god that you can make up in your own mind so it will fit what you want, and do not consider that your god wouldn't by necessity be right for others.

Do you know that it’s rude to tell people what you think they want?  Do you talk like that to people IRL?  Why don’t you try asking me how I feel rather than telling me what you think I feel?  That’s how normal people converse.

That's why we can't choose God, He chooses us, that is those who are willing to be humble enough to be chosen. Your mind, my mind and everyone's minds are flawed and could never come up with a God who can satisfy all our needs, but we have one who will, all it takes is to listen to Him and for the life of me I do not see what it hurts to listen.

I was a person of faith for many years, GC.  I did plenty of listening.  One thing I never heard was the voice of a god.

You do not like the God of the Bible because you believe He demands to much of you and until you come to know Him you will always believe this because you have no understanding what it's like to live in relationship with Him.

There you go again telling me how I think and feel.  What is it exactly that you think he is demanding that I wouldn’t be willing to give?  On a personal level, I don’t like the god of the Bible because he’s childish, vindictive, narcissistic, and morally repugnant.  From the perspective of rationality, frankly nothing about his story makes any sense.

Exactly where else [besides the bible] are we to get evidence?

I don’t know, GC.  Why don’t you ask god that question?  It’s his abysmal failure after all.  It’s not a fault of mine for expecting the perfect creator of all things to do a little better than an old book written by a bunch of lowly, fallible sinners.

the Bible is where God reveals himself to man

According to...the Bible, lol.  Do you see the circle here?  

This is the way He wants things to be for now and who am I to argue with the One who gave His life to save me from eternal separation.

Well, for one, you are a rational being who doesn’t have to accept the bare assertion that a god exists, and is going to save you from himself, lol.  

If you need more then you need to ask God, not demand but ask sincerely.

If you need evidence that Santa exists before you can believe in him, you have to sincerely ask Santa to give you some evidence.  Does that make sense to you?

However if you were to look closer at what the scriptures actually reveal you might just see God.

No, what I need is solid corroborating evidence that supports the truth of the scripture’s claims. None exists.  I wonder why that is?

If God were to open up heaven and show himself to you then there would be no place for belief, now would there.

Well Ofc there would.  If that happened then I would actually have a rational justification for belief.

One day in the future God is going to open up the heavens and His angels will accompany God the Son and then you will see,if you are alive at the time, but it will be to late for the unbelieving.

Wow, what a shitty thing to do to his people; damn us for eternity for using the rational mind he designed for us.

Why are you and all atheist stuck in the OT, that is were God shows us that we have a need for a savior. I know there are things in the OT that sound horrible, but there is real truth in them, a truth you seem unwilling to search for.

The OT contains events and specific commands by your god that are morally indefensible to any socially-emotionally well adjusted adult human.  That’s a problem for your book, not for me. 

Believe me it took me several years and some questioning to God to see some of those truths in what seemed as if it were the most horrible of things.

So you stared at something until it said the thing you wanted it to say, instead of what it actually said?

you do not want faith to be a part of your life, you just can't trust, is this what I'm reading from you.

There isn’t anything a person can’t believe in based on faith, GC.  Faith is not a reliable pathway to truth. Faith is believing in something without any good reason to do so.  That’s nothing to be proud of.  

Dying without evidence is like living without faith, both will get you no where, but you can have the faith and evidence if you truly want them, but that's the problem for you, you don't want them because you believe to much is required of you, yet you forget what was required of God to have you to be one of His children.

Again, I ask...what is it exactly that you think is required of me that I wouldn’t want to sacrifice?  You don’t even know me.

[Astreja]

The Christian is not about us doing right. We are told we will never 'do right' ...

And you think this is a good thing?  

[Godscreated]

That's for limited minds like yours. Christians understand the power of God and the wonderful work He does with it.

GC

Riiiiiight. Because killing millions of his  children via a flood,  when he made them all born with sin and then got pissed off when they did exactly what they were supposed to,  according to His Plan, was such a fucking loving thing to do.

Your god is a fucking piece of shit.

 Joods, God did not make people with sin, that would be against who God is, to do that would make God a liar and He can't lie either. People are born with a sin nature and when they act upon that nature they become sinners. God loves the people and hates the sin. Isn't there someone in your life you love yet did not like some wrong they did. God's plan was never to have people to sin, He knew it would happen and then He made a plan to redeem man from his sin and back unto Himself. This was what He knew He would have to do if He created mankind. His love for us was so great He was willing to put himself through all this stuff with mankind and created us despite the troubles He would face. So yes He has loved us even before He created us.

GC

[purplepurpose]

Your implying that non belief is a grave crime that earn torture, like your bible suggests. Your Bibles ideas you like are trash.

oh how the self righteous can sing when they know not of themselves.

How many 9/11 style attacks has their been against the United states since 9-11-01? Do you think it is for a lack of trying? or is there a greater work happening here? a work greater than the faith of a radicalized muslim who firmly believes that if the die holding on to their plans their reward in the after life will be without measure. and if they give themselves up they will go to the deepest part of hell. do you think these guys just roll over after a few days of metalica being played a 11 or being made to eat bacon?

Look at france they have a no torture policy, and then ask how many attacks have the french people suffered? do you think it is because of the alantic ocean and radical islamists are afraid to boat over or fly?

Even the UK benefits from the intell we and our allies gather in the name of western civilization. to pretend that you do not live in a terrorist state is because radical islamists give u their buddies because they don't get 12 hours sleep a night and are made to eat bacon and eggs is beyond being naive.

You enjoy your freedom because someone's dad had to turn the screws on bad men in order to keep the rest safe. if you can't thank others for doing a job you could not do, then you should enjoy the freedom they provide us in silence.

I may not be in a position to judge a man wicked or not, but I do know there are men who can and do, all the more with an all knowing all powerful God. If either make such a determination then let hell fire and brimstone rain down on them forever. I care not what happens to ISIS fighters. and if you were honest with yourself you would say the same. The only reason you won't because in this scenario you become the ISIS fighter.

It's retarded to threat people with hell, just because they don't subscribe to your religion.

[LadyForCamus]

Riiiiiight. Because killing millions of his  children via a flood,  when he made them all born with sin and then got pissed off when they did exactly what they were supposed to,  according to His Plan, was such a fucking loving thing to do.

Your god is a fucking piece of shit.

 Joods, God did not make people with sin

But he did make them knowing ahead of time they would sin.  For all practical purposes, those two scenarios are exactly the same.

[purplepurpose]

 Joods, God did not make people with sin

But he did make them knowing ahead of time they would sin.  For all practical purposes, those two scenarios are exactly the same.

God created world for his own enjoyment, He is like a movie director. He doesn't need a naive and full of bliss Comedy, He seem to want a tragic, full of struggle and pain drama to enjoy, according to some eastern theists I heard from.

[The Grand Nudger]

Esoterica..I know, but, comedy is a secondary function of tragedy.  The funniest shit is always sad.  

Theres more than just a little bit of greek drama in magic book. The apostles perpetual surprise at god-mans daily miracle workings is chorus in action.

[Drich]

oh how the self righteous can sing when they know not of themselves.

How many 9/11 style attacks has their been against the United states since 9-11-01? Do you think it is for a lack of trying? or is there a greater work happening here? a work greater than the faith of a radicalized muslim who firmly believes that if the die holding on to their plans their reward in the after life will be without measure. and if they give themselves up they will go to the deepest part of hell. do you think these guys just roll over after a few days of metalica being played a 11 or being made to eat bacon?

Look at france they have a no torture policy, and then ask how many attacks have the french people suffered? do you think it is because of the alantic ocean and radical islamists are afraid to boat over or fly?

Even the UK benefits from the intell we and our allies gather in the name of western civilization. to pretend that you do not live in a terrorist state is because radical islamists give u their buddies because they don't get 12 hours sleep a night and are made to eat bacon and eggs is beyond being naive.

You enjoy your freedom because someone's dad had to turn the screws on bad men in order to keep the rest safe. if you can't thank others for doing a job you could not do, then you should enjoy the freedom they provide us in silence.

I may not be in a position to judge a man wicked or not, but I do know there are men who can and do, all the more with an all knowing all powerful God. If either make such a determination then let hell fire and brimstone rain down on them forever. I care not what happens to ISIS fighters. and if you were honest with yourself you would say the same. The only reason you won't because in this scenario you become the ISIS fighter.

It's retarded to threat people with hell, just because they don't subscribe to your religion.

WFT??? how did you get a hell threat out of that?

My position about throwing away imhuman monsters is no different that what 'you good people' consider doing with an ISIS terrorist.

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The Christian is not about us doing right. We are told we will never 'do right' ...

And you think this is a good thing?  

Yes because there is no bar to over come or in some cases to float over. Once God removed the bar it simply became a matter of doing your best. which means God does not demand we live sin free but simply try and do our best.

If you paint everything right and wrong you would have conditional heaven. meaning you would have to meet every rule. even when you 'good people' make up your own morality, you are not able to all agree on every rule.

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@Mystic/MA
Particularly committed stalkers work on the same MO.  Elaborate mythologies regarding the ways in which the object of their compulsive obessisions signal reciprocity.  As they peep, they imagine that the girl in the shower is washing her hair specifically for them.

@Drich
Sorry, whats that...?  I can;t hear you all the way down there.  Go get your boyfriend.  I;'ll talk to him.

Again smart guy if you are expecting one thing and God shows up as another, how would you be able to discern to whom you speak? Do you still not get it?

[The Grand Nudger]

Interesting how that works out.  Christians have carte blanche to be utterly deplorable...but an atheist is going to be tortured forever no matter how decent they are.

There;s that noise again...I swear to christ it sounds like somebody is trapped in a box far...far away.....