[Serious] Comfort in Faith at Death

[Shell B]

But, your example only includes one type of theism. Not all theism says there's only an afterlife if you believe in god.

It's tied in, and you know it.

[The Grand Nudger]

All types of theism contend the personal and intervening god. That’s what theism refers to.

Sure, they’re “tied in” but not by any necessity if each other that would make opposition to the one opposition to the other, and the manner in which they’ve been tied in to each other is one of antitheisms arguments.

A generally bad influence has coopted a valued and comfortable belief along its own self defining lines. Antitheism isn’t an issue of opposing the coopted belief , it’s not antiafterlifeism or anticomfortism.

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Or, let’s try it another way. There are millions of ideas that theists do (and could) attach their theism too. To assume that antitheism is opposition to all of those other ideas is beyond ludicrous.

A person can think that it’s their “Christian duty” to pay their taxes.

[Shell B]

I never said you were opposed to these other things. The ludicrous thing is that you keep saying that I did, no matter how many times I've made it clear that I never fucking said that. I was never like, Gae hates comfort in theism, therefore I can't be like Gae. I've said, refuckingpeatedly, that the things connected to theism, almost inextricably, that I don't find problematic, and the fact that the vast majority of theists don't prescribe to more militant theism, makes me not opposed to theism.

This is not difficult.

[The Grand Nudger]

The objection to antitheism on the basis of comforting beliefs implicitly asserts exactly that, Shell. You say the reason you can’t be an an antitheist is because you value that comfort.

So do antitheists. It’s because antitheists value that comfort and see theism exploiting it that they say things like “religion poisons everything”.

It’s not s good reason to object to antirheism or even a reason not to be an antitheist because it has nothing to do with what antitheism contends. We knock shit like this down with regularity, as atheists, on the boards.

I don’t find afterlives or comfort in afterlives problematic, either. I find - theism- problematic...and so do you.....by reference to a decade or so of comments, and comment in thread. Even our resident theist and atheist theistic apologists have indicated as much. Like I said, an uncontroversial opinion with unfortunate ( and inaccurate) stigma attached.

Bonus round...who and what, do you think....attached that stigma?

[Shell B]

The objection to antitheism on the basis of comforting beliefs implicitly asserts exactly that, Shell.  You say the reason you can’t be an an antitheist is because you value that comfort.  

I said a lot more than that.

So do antitheists.  It’s because antitheists value that comfort and see theism exploiting it that they say things like “religion poisons everything”.

That's so histrionic.

It’s not s good reason to object to antirheism or even a reason not to be an antitheist because it has nothing to do with what antitheism contends.  We knock shit like this down with regularity, as atheists, on the boards.

I don't object to antitheism. Ffs, follow the conversation. I'm starting to, because I find your attitude about it slavish.

I find - theism- problematic...and so do you.....by reference to a decade or so of comments, and comment in thread.  

No, I don't. Again, your equating the top three theistic beliefs with all of theism. You think because you can surmise the entirety of my view on theism based on my discussions here, which are nearly always about Catholicism and Islam. If you don't stop making assertions about my own beliefs, I cannot continue this discussion. I cannot even call it a discussion.

[The Grand Nudger]

And as an addendum, “militant theism” isn’t at all the thing that best makes antitheisms case. Even theists oppose the canard if miltancy. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion if all theism was as “militant”. It takes the good ones to make antitheisms case. Subtle coercion that leveraged our feeling for loved ones and valued ideas is far more effective at producing the intenddd aim of “militant” theism. That’s why subtle coercion became the most of theism in the first place. Militancy is an obstacle to spread.

That’s why “the big three” have taken the form they have- but I don’t need them. Greek pagans accused Christians of being militant and abtitheustic atheists.....and they weren’t - exactly- wrong, at the dawn of the big three.

Or, I could do one liners and dick jokes and not employ the massive amount of information I’ve absorbed on the subject.

I’m probably better at that, but still. Ultimately, I understand your position, I’m just telling you that it’s not an argument or objection to antitheism. You aren’t wrong about comforting beliefs.....you’re just wrong about what antitheism is.

[Shell B]

No, I'm not. Antitheism is objecting to theism. I don't do that. I also didn't object to antitheism. You may have absorbed a lot of information on the subject, but you don't absorb my posts one bit. I keep telling you that I object to neither and you keep arguing with me as if I do.

I'm trying to keep my posts succinct so this doesn't happen and yet . . .

[The Grand Nudger]

“I’m not an antitheist golem, antitheismizing so hard it burns calories”.

Yes, I know, neither are antitheists.

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So, one of the only reasons why I'm not anti-theist is that I see a good reason why people are religious-comfort.

Antitheists -also- think that’s one of the good reasons ™ that theists are theists.

They just don’t think that washes away all of the other shit that comes with theism. I assume you agree there as well. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[Shell B]

Let me keep this simple. I don’t oppose theism, therefore, I can’t be called a person who opposes theism. I don’t know why this is hard for you or why you feel it’s important that you label me how you see fit, but I simply, unequivocally, do not oppose theism. Theism is merely a belief in god. I have some problems with organized religion, some of them quite serious, but they don’t apply to all of theism. Opposing a silly belief isn’t important to me. I don’t think theism is the problem.

[Godscreated]

Especially for those who know their death is coming because there is no cure or the 'cure' will kill them, I think that whatever comfort they can find to get through that time is just fine with me.  I certainly am not going to be the one to take away whatever it is that helps them to leave this life with less stress.

Who is it hurting?  End of life or at the time of grieving isn't the time to take the belief is a hereafter away from people.  They are already dealing with enough physically, mentally, and emotionally.

 What makes you believe you can take the faith of a believer in Jesus away at anytime in their life. Christians do not believe to relieve the pain of death, they believe to have a relationship with Jesus for an eternity. Yes knowing that death is temporary is comforting, however dying is an extremely uncomfortable situation I saw it with mom when she passed a little over a year ago and she was as strong a Christian as I've ever known. 

GC