A really hard question on Satan and deception.

[Godscreated]

[snip]He allowed them to exercise their freewill. I think you have a misconception of freewill, it is only one of two choices God or no God, [snip]

Despite the pure fantasy of angels etc. This is something I have never understood about xtian theology. If god exists, in the terms put forward by xtianity, how can freewill exist at all?:

1) you are only allowed to make free choices, ie they are not intrinsic to your existence and reality ie they are an illusion provided by a god
2) you can only make free choices from within the context imposed of a cartoon universe drawn by a god, ie reality as perceived through nature is not an absolute
3) you can invoke a god through prayer to get you out of trouble of your free choices. He may/may not answer.
4) He knows your free choices in advance and doesn't need to run the freewill experiment on earth
5) Worse still if you only choose to do what can be considered 'good' becuase of a fear of god, he'll know that too (know your motives aren't sincere). Thus your free choice was irrelevant.

Xtianity definitionally abolishes freewill as an illiusion.

Freewill is for man,we have no idea what each day may hold. God has restrained himself in certain areas so freewill to Him has been limited for reasons we can not always understand.

Godschild.

A quick question. In making a free choice between God and Satan, heaven and hell, is full disclosure of what the decision entails part of the decision making process. IOW, should all the consequences, good or evil be known?

Regards
DL

See you have found my problem that jumps up every once in a while.

[The Grand Nudger]

Freewill is for man like tricks are for kids, it's a platitude that sounded good to you so you typed it. It doesn't mean anything, you can't substantiate any of it. I don't see why I should believe that you "understand" anything at all about god. You have opinions, I'll grant you that. However, you can't produce anything to support your claims, and you can't do any better than "the lord works in mysterious ways" when asked a direct question. So quick with certainty of existence or punishment but asked for details and all we get are crickets. You wouldn't feel satisfied with a system of justice as nebulous as this from a human being, presumably a god could do better. With my supposed eternal soul on the line I'd like to know the details of the contract (that I never signed in the first place). I want to see the fine print. Anyone(or anything) that hinders or obstructs my access to this sort of information is engaging in(or is a tool of) deception.

Garbage. How can I be sure that you aren't the satan (or a tool of satan) GC, spreading false doctrine to lead people away from god? Sometimes the things you say are the cruelest parodies of divinity.

[Godscreated]

Godschild.

A quick question. In making a free choice between God and Satan, heaven and hell, is full disclosure of what the decision entails part of the decision making process. IOW, should all the consequences, good or evil be known?

Regards
DL

As I've said before your freewill is a choice to accept Christ as your savior or not to. After that your life will follow your choice. If one chooses God, one will in a relationship with Him, talk to Him about many things good and bad.

---

Freewill is for man like tricks are for kids, it's a platitude that sounded good to you so you typed it. It doesn't mean anything, you can't substantiate any of it. I don't see why I should believe that you "understand" anything at all about god. You have opinions, I'll grant you that. However, you can't produce anything to support your claims, and you can't do any better than "the lord works in mysterious ways" when asked a direct question. So quick with certainty of existence or punishment but asked for details and all we get are crickets. You wouldn't feel satisfied with a system of justice as nebulous as this from a human being, presumably a god could do better. With my supposed eternal soul on the line I'd like to know the details of the contract (that I never signed in the first place). I want to see the fine print. Anyone(or anything) that hinders or obstructs my access to this sort of information is engaging in(or is a tool of) deception.

Garbage. How can I be sure that you aren't the satan (or a tool of satan) GC, spreading false doctrine to lead people away from god? Sometimes the things you say are the cruelest parodies of divinity.

I feel sorry for those who just give up their freewill and believe that their lives just run an uncontrolled path, why even live if all you have is no control over your life, is it just to see if your life is a joy ride. Shame some strange force determined who your wife would be. By the way that strange force is not to reliable because 50% of those married have to over come it somehow to get a divorce. Man you must really live one screwed up life.

[The Grand Nudger]

So "controlled paths" as the opposite seem like the right sort of grounds for "free will"?

[Greatest I am]

Godschild.

A quick question. In making a free choice between God and Satan, heaven and hell, is full disclosure of what the decision entails part of the decision making process. IOW, should all the consequences, good or evil be known?

Regards
DL

As I've said before your freewill is a choice to accept Christ as your savior or not to. After that your life will follow your choice. If one chooses God, one will in a relationship with Him, talk to Him about many things good and bad.

---

You did not answer the question my friend. Why not?

To choose good or evil, should we not know what that good and evil represents or is?

At present, we have a Satan on one side, normally thought to be evil.
On the other side, we have God, normally though to be good, yet who uses genocide on man. An act normally thought to be evil.

Seems that we need full disclosure and an explanation as to why a God who can cure just as easily as kill, chooses to kill and annul the free will choice of his victims that would have chosen life and not death.

Is full disclosure required to make the most important decision of our lives?

Regards
DL

[The Grand Nudger]

Full disclosure was beyond the ability of the people who wrote the myth. How could they have explained things that they didn't understand? Ah yes, by reference to a "god", another concept they obviously didn't understand.

Full disclosure by people who posessed nothing to disclose is impossible.

[Greatest I am]

Full disclosure was beyond the ability of the people who wrote the myth. How could they have explained things that they didn't understand? Ah yes, by reference to a "god", another concept they obviously didn't understand.

Full disclosure by people who posessed nothing to disclose is impossible.

Oh ye of little faith.

Nothing is impossible for God, echo, echo , echo--- don't'cha know.

Except for reproduction of course. For that, God needs a woman.
Preferably someone else's woman.
Preferably his own mother.
Incest is best. Yuk.

Regards
DL

[Mister Agenda]

And if God is taking advice: it's a mistake to allow free-willed beings into heaven. They will mess it up. You couldn't even keep more than 2/3 of the angels in line and you're going to allow humans in? Save yourself the headache, but be nice: send 'em to a better place, but out of your hair.

God did not try to keep 1/3 of the angels in check, He allowed them to exercise their freewill. I think you have a misconception of freewill, it is only one of two choices God or no God, the rest of ones life goes on from there in a relationship with God or no relationship with Him. The decision is ours we were created to choose, so were the angels.

You kind of missed the point, man. If people can't choose not to be in a relationship with God in heaven, they don't have freewill. If they do have freewill, they can, like 1/3 of the angels, still forfeit heaven after they've gotten there...and we're no angels.

[IATIA]

Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

Did the doctor put a pack of smokes on the coffee table and say "Don't smoke those."?

[Godscreated]

Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

Did the doctor put a pack of smokes on the coffee table and say "Don't smoke those."?

That's about, no is ridiculous.

---

And if God is taking advice: it's a mistake to allow free-willed beings into heaven. They will mess it up. You couldn't even keep more than 2/3 of the angels in line and you're going to allow humans in? Save yourself the headache, but be nice: send 'em to a better place, but out of your hair.

God did not try to keep 1/3 of the angels in check, He allowed them to exercise their freewill. I think you have a misconception of freewill, it is only one of two choices God or no God, the rest of ones life goes on from there in a relationship with God or no relationship with Him. The decision is ours we were created to choose, so were the angels.

You kind of missed the point, man. If people can't choose not to be in a relationship with God in heaven, they don't have freewill. If they do have freewill, they can, like 1/3 of the angels, still forfeit heaven after they've gotten there...and we're no angels.

Sorry I did misread it.