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A really hard question on Satan and deception.
RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
There's the rub. I'd like to make it known that I am opting out of heaven (I don't want to be in the presence of the god I've had described to me by christians). Nonetheless I'm going to live a good life, and be a decent human being. If my decision to leverage my "free will" ends up creating a situation where a good person roasts in hell perhaps god should reassess the system he's set up. Or, you're utterly and completely wrong, no such system exists, and a god would be wise enough to understand this in the first place.
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
I'm with you, Rhythm. I want nowhere near this "heaven".
42

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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
Eh, depends on the heaven. I hear different versions, some sound okay. Some versions of God sound okay, too. I like the one where he's just very powerful and wise instead of all-powerful and all-knowing, and is doing the best he can with such a big universe to run. He thinks hell is a silly idea but doesn't want to be a busy-body if that's what people want to believe. Smile
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
(November 11, 2011 at 1:26 am)Godschild Wrote:
(November 10, 2011 at 10:06 pm)IATIA Wrote:
(November 8, 2011 at 10:39 am)Godschild Wrote: Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

Did the doctor put a pack of smokes on the coffee table and say "Don't smoke those."?

That's about, no is ridiculous.

Huh? That made no sense. As far as "ridiculous", that is no more ridiculous than god, knowing what will happen, putting the tree in the garden.

(November 11, 2011 at 1:26 am)Godschild Wrote:
(November 10, 2011 at 6:58 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:
(November 9, 2011 at 12:01 am)Godschild Wrote:
(November 8, 2011 at 3:22 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: And if God is taking advice: it's a mistake to allow free-willed beings into heaven. They will mess it up. You couldn't even keep more than 2/3 of the angels in line and you're going to allow humans in? Save yourself the headache, but be nice: send 'em to a better place, but out of your hair.

God did not try to keep 1/3 of the angels in check, He allowed them to exercise their freewill. I think you have a misconception of freewill, it is only one of two choices God or no God, the rest of ones life goes on from there in a relationship with God or no relationship with Him. The decision is ours we were created to choose, so were the angels.

You kind of missed the point, man. If people can't choose not to be in a relationship with God in heaven, they don't have freewill. If they do have freewill, they can, like 1/3 of the angels, still forfeit heaven after they've gotten there...and we're no angels.

Sorry I did misread it.

What happens if we decide, after getting to heaven, to exercise our free will and defy god's rules. Where do we end up then?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
I propose subheaven for those that managed to get there in the first place but can't quite manage total submission eternally. Shows there's no hard feelings as long as you gave it a good try.
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
(October 20, 2011 at 2:02 am)Godschild Wrote:
(October 19, 2011 at 2:07 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: A really hard question on Satan and deception.

GIa Wrote:You all know that I always have answers for everything but these ones have me stumped. That or Satan is deceiving me. How could I know?

If you have never sought out God then Satan doesn't have a need to deceive you. He will let you believe your own ideas, this way he doesn't have to waste time on you.

GIa Wrote:If angels have free will, why has one never shown themselves?

They have read scriptures and you will discover when and where. they appear as men so as to not reveal who they truly are except to those they have been sent to. When they came to people in private they may have appeared as angels. You never know when you might have meet an angel.

GIa Wrote:There are apparently good angels and evil angels that have been renamed as demons.

If either of these showed itself, we could not distinguish it from God himself. No one has ever seen God.

God is Spirit, HE has no physical form,read the scriptures please. The angels have a physical body and you can bet when you come in the presents of God you will surely know.

GIa Wrote:Would we accept it as God and be deceived?

Come to think of it you probably would just as other non believers would, if you have no personal relationship with Christ how could you know.

GIa Wrote:After all, it is said by God that Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Knowing this, and knowing that most of the world belongs to one religion or another. It follows that most people in these religions have been deceived.

You are correct about the power of satan, read Mk. 13:22 and you will see that the elect (the followers of Christ) will not be deceived, why, because we have a relationship with the true God and know Him, satan does not have the power to reveal himself as the true God.

GIa Wrote:How then can believers be so sure that they follow the right God?
As scripture indicates that most if not all will be following the wrong God thanks to deception.

The answer is a the same as the above.

GIa Wrote:Are you somehow immune to Satan, who can deceive the whole world?

Yes as I said christians have a relationship with God, we know Him personally and will see through satans attempts to deceive.

GIa Wrote:If atheists are deceived, then there really is a God.
If believers are deceived, then there really is no God.

If a believer, how do you get around this catch 22.

Yes to the first part, no to the second part, why, if a believer was deceived there would have to be a deceiver and since you are making statements about God and satan I assume you are sticking to the story that God created Lucifer who becomes the deceiver by his own choice, thus a deceiver then there must be God.

GIa Wrote:Are morals the only good way around it?

If so, then if you are a believer that believes that Sodom or the genocide of Noah’s day is good justice, does that mean that you have been deceived?

Having good morals will not give you a relationship with Christ, you can do all the good you can stand but you will still belong to satan.
To the second part, those things you mention are just because God who is just determined it was just. The decision He made is just no matter what you or I think. So, no we as christians have not been deceived.

GIa Wrote:Because on the face of it, since non believers are a minority and think it evil, then you, as part of the majority and think it good, must be wrong.

Is genocide then a good thing or an evil thing?

It's neither for you or I to say what is morally right and just only the moral and just God of heaven can determine such, we trust God in His righteousness. For man to commit genocide is wrong, for God to punish the wicked is just and right.

GIa Wrote:Careful, you have definitely been deceived if God was right. Satan has deceived you.

Regards
DL

God is not the deceiver, satan is, and God in His righteousness will keep safe those who accept Him from satans deceptions.

You really believe all that shit, huh?

Can you explain to everybody why god has killed millions of people and satan has killed one and satan is the evil one?
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
(November 13, 2011 at 7:19 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:
(October 20, 2011 at 2:02 am)Godschild Wrote: God is not the deceiver, satan is, and God in His righteousness will keep safe those who accept Him from satans deceptions.

You really believe all that shit, huh?

Can you explain to everybody why god has killed millions of people and satan has killed one and satan is the evil one?

Actually, Satan killed 10 people, the seven sons and three daughters of Job, and this was on a bet with god. Other than this incident, the only thing Satan has done is to piss off god while trying to enlighten everyone from Adam and Eve to Jesus himself as to the unjust tyrannical rule of this "just and merciful" god.

If there truly were a god, it would certainly take issue on the xtian interpretation of itself.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
Anyone ever thought that if Satan is capable of deceiving people then maybe Jesus was Satan?
I don't see how you could rule it out completely. If anyone can say otherwise, then fair enough... It was just a thought I had considering people are so gullible, especially 2000 years ago Tongue

I think it would have been easy for Satan to masquerade as the son of God. By doing so he is condemning millions of souls to hell... Quite the plan Wink
Cunt
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RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
(November 13, 2011 at 12:47 pm)frankiej Wrote: Anyone ever thought that if Satan is capable of deceiving people then maybe Jesus was Satan?
I don't see how you could rule it out completely. If anyone can say otherwise, then fair enough... It was just a thought I had considering people are so gullible, especially 2000 years ago Tongue

I think it would have been easy for Satan to masquerade as the son of God. By doing so he is condemning millions of souls to hell... Quite the plan Wink

There is a field of thought that considers the "Serpent of the Garden" the "luminescent Jesus".
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Reply
RE: A really hard question on Satan and deception.
I think what everyone is either forgetting or they just don't know (GC), is that none of this is real and that is precisely why none of it makes sense.

There is no Lucifer. There is no Satan. There was no serpent. Adam and Eve never existed and the whole damn thing is cooked up to scare people into believing in a phoney-baloney god. Some people apparently, can sleep better knowing that they worship a god so as to insure he won't cook them for all eternity upon their human demise. **eye roll**


Seriously, debating the truths of the Brother's Grimm has just as much relevancy to your life ........ ZILCH. NADA. NIL. NONE.
[Image: Evolution.png]

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