Russia and Ukraine

[purplepurpose]

I am talking about post WW2 period. Creation of UN. The noble ideas behind it. It was all fake, from russians point of view, because West does what it wants. I am russian, born in EU. I can see the russian side clearly.

And Russia did lots of invasions in repressions in that period too. And again your statement is simply Whataboutism

Sadly our comments here are worth nothing, zero...

[Irreligious Atheist]

That is the dumbest take ever. This position is neither virtue signaling and no not taking action is not the same as being okay with something. Those are some absolutely epic mental gymnastic moves to force reality to conform to your warped idealogy

Not as though it's going to matter as there is no certainty Russia keeping Crimea. After they lose the war. 

The word ok (oll korrect, originally, or all correct) has many different definitions. Here is one of them; used to express assent, agreement, or acceptance.

Acceptance. If I'm not willing to take Russia out of Crimea by force, I'm in a state of acceptance. I'm ok with Russia taking Ukrainian land. I'm ok with girls being barred from school. I'm ok with Putin staying in power and there being no regime change. I am ok with no tribunals for Putin. I am ok with all of this. I do not like these things though. In a just, ideal world, a man like Putin would not have power in any country including Russia, let alone Ukraine. Neither would Joe Biden, or Trudeau, etc. They'd be out of office too. But we're not living in an ideal world and I'm a realist, so yes, I'm ok with no school for girls and gains for daddy Putin.

The same idea as silence equals violence that you push out for your BLM rallies. You clearly understand, so stop pretending. Silence after Rodney King didn't mean that you liked what happened to Rodney, but it meant that you weren't willing to speak up against it and put forward new policies to deal with future situations like this, which could be seen as a sign of acceptance of the situation you are in.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Nope not being willing to take by force does not equal being okay with it no matter how many times you repeat this stupid take and the rest is just as nonsensical. Your takes are bad. Deal with it 

[The Architect Of Fate]

And Russia did lots of invasions in repressions in that period too. And again your statement is simply Whataboutism

Sadly our comments here are worth nothing, zero...

That's kind of aside the point really.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Nope not being willing to take by force does not equal being okay with it no matter how many times you repeat this stupid take and the rest is just as nonsensical. Your takes are bad. Deal with it 

Are you making the claim that ok only has one definition? You calling the dictionary a liar? Did you really just say that the dictionary is "nonsense"?

[The Architect Of Fate]

I repeat my original statement not wanting to send troops to retake it is not being okay with it. No matter what rhetorical gymnastics you play. This take is nonsensical. Deal with it.

[Irreligious Atheist]

I repeat my original statement not wanting to send troops to retake it is not being okay with it. No matter what rhetorical gymnastics you play. This take is nonsensical. Deal with it.

So words don't have multiple definitions and the dictionary is wrong and you get to be the gatekeeper of what the one true definition is? I see. Who elected you to that position? Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know it's chic to blame America for everything, but who was it who gave the order to invade? How did seizing Crimea and attacking eastern Ukraine diminish America's influence in Kyiv or increase Russian security, which is the necessary implication of your point here?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-u...1G20140207

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A conversation between a State Department official and the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine that was posted on YouTube revealed an embarrassing exchange on U.S. strategy for a political transition in that country, including a crude American swipe at the European Union.

Nuland is heard telling U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt that she doesn’t think Vitaly Klitschko, the boxer-turned-politician who is a main opposition leader, should be in a new government.

“So I don’t think Klitsch (Klitschko) should go into the government,” she said in the recording, which appeared to describe events that occurred in late January. “I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.”

Nuland referred to getting the United Nations involved in a political solution in Kiev.

“So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and have the U.N. help glue it and you know ... fuck the EU,” she said in the recording, which was accompanied by still pictures of people mentioned in the call.

Pyatt responded: “Exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it.”

Protests began when Yanukovich spurned an EU trade agreement last year in pursuit of closer ties with Russia. Protesters have since taken over public buildings and staged mass rallies, sometimes clashing violently with police, in the capital Kiev and other cities.

“I think (Yatseniuk) is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. What he needs is (Klitschko) and (Tyahnybok) on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week,” Nuland said in the recording.

Pyatt suggested Nuland contact Klitschko personally to play to his “top dog” sensibilities.

“I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management among the three and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it before they all sit down and he explains why he doesn’t like it,” he said.


In 2014 USA already was deciding who will govern Ukraine.

Analysis and advice is different than dictating. Do you have any link showing that the Americans dictated the composition of the Ukrainian government? Please answer this question directly.

Who gave USA rights to coordinate election process of foreign nation?

The quote you posted doesn't demonstrate that. And who gave Russia the right to invade Ukraine? You seem mighty quiet on the legality of that.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Actually, we don't have to agree to disagree because my original point stands and yours crumbles to dust despite your mental acrobatics.

[Pat Mustard]

Seems like Wagner is running away

They may be, but if so, it looks like their escape route goes through bakhmut - as wagner is pulling all of it's people in toward the city at present moment - according to ukraine.

Prigo isn't wrong about any of the shit he's complaining about, though I doubt he genuinely gives a shit...either.  The russian ministry of defense has clearly fucked the pooch on multiple levels and from the pov of a wagner merc, at least, it can't possibly matter why that happened, only that it did.

The main reason Prigozyn was crying was because the officer in charge of logistics, who was selling him stuff at knock down prices, was removed from his post a few months ago (and resigned the other day to take up a senior post in Wagner).

Looks like they've made up, Wagner and the RAF, because now they're "staying in the fight". Probably Shoigu had Prigozyn over for dinner and casually mentioned that he was deploying new Chechen stopping battalions in the area behind Bakhmut and they were exceptionally well armed.