Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change

[passionatefool]

I don't have a problem with saying something isn't normal.

The problem I see is that generally people use "normal" as a gauge to wrong or right. Something to me can be not normal, but at the same time it doesn't make it wrong.

I'd say homosexuality is not normal, but also I'd say there is nothing wrong with it.

Yeah i would say homosexuality isnt normal, but it is natural and common becausr it occurs throughout animilia kingdom including human, so it is normal in a sense it happens. besides who would want to be normal lol.

[Violet]

'Normal' is a word used by people that don't understand just how absurd the word is.

[Norfolk And Chance]

It's not really absurd at all.

[Shell B]

I voted "No". A gay person can't make themselves straight any more than a straight person can make themselves gay.

I agree that a person cannot "make" themselves gay or straight. I just disagree that the above should lead to the conclusion that people cannot change sexual orientation. I'm willing to bet that post-traumatic stress disorder from a rape by a male might make me averse to sex with men, thus making me a lesbian if not celibate. Sexuality is far more complex than people want it to be. You may be born that way and many people are. However, you may also shift that way for a number of reasons. "That way" meaning any sexuality, not just homosexuality.

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"Normal" can be taken to mean statistically significantly more likely. However, in this thread, I believe kilic meant "normal" to mean "like me."

Passionatefool, a late welcome, but badassery abounds for you in this thread. Very good.

[Napoléon]

I agree that a person cannot "make" themselves gay or straight. I just disagree that the above should lead to the conclusion that people cannot change sexual orientation.

This! ^

I'm going out on a limb and voting yes. I used to be attracted to the same sex and went off women all together for about 2-3 years. But right now it's the opposite.

Maybe it was just a phase. But from my own experience it is easily possible to change sexual preference, I just don't think you have any control over it.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I guess you think it is probably more suitable if a child is with a straight couple who are abusive and show no love. Love is probably one of the most important factor in parenting.

Are you implying that homosexuals are more loving "parents" than straight people?
I don't think so. Not to mention that the social stigma will hit the child no matter how "loving" the parents are, and even without it, the child will eventually figure out that there is something wrong.
He/she'll ask, what the hell? What is wrong with me that I have different parents than anyone else?
Even if you have like abusive parents, you still don't have to face the fact that your "parents" are people who are engaging in various acts...

And of course any sort of cure would fucking damage the person. There are evidence that indicated the difference even in brain formation of a gay man compared to a straight man . There are researches that show the formation of the brain of a gay man resemble that more of a straight woman instead of a straight man. So any cure would mean having to alter the brain which is already developed and formed. It would be like lobotomy which was performed on WWII soldiers which really turned them into a vegetable....It was accepted as a "cure" then, but now we know how unethical, invasive, and wrong it is as it shuts down a person, turning him or her into a robot.

Well, it's a defect, an abnormality alright. And I already said that there is no cure in sight, right now.

Your statement on surrogate mother is a slippery slope fallacy. It is probably a bias argument based on your opposition to homosexuals. I can say that your ignorance on homosexuality will result in the spreading of ignorance which result in intolerance and the increase in suicidal rate among LGBT teens and it would make more sense and probably even have more evidence in supporting it.

And you want to tell me that there aren't homosexuals who consider surrogacy in an effort to have children in one or the other way?
And really, wow...Just because I oppose gay adoption I'm contributing to the suicide rates of gay "teens". Pfft...

Homosexuals are outcast is also another stupid argument, they arent outcast because of the nature of homosexuality, but the nature of intolerance and ignorant people with fear that made them shun homosexuals. And did you just seriously wonder why religious people arent welcoming toward homosexuals? How about maybe because most of these religions, including Hinduism is something that exist thousand of years ago combined with a ton of myths and superstitioms that have very little scientific basis thus the people are just as ignorant as any other religion? I dont see how people who are still living with a dark-age mentality would understand what homosexuality is especially with the fact of how little scientific/psychological knowledge they have.

Really, you don't really have to be religious to actually know what homosexuality is all about.
Whatever, I am not looking for acceptance from your kind. Your kind is trying to gain acceptance from me. Maybe if you stopped trying to change us to accomodate your lifestyles, we'd be more welcoming.
But yeah, seeing things like those gay parades...I saw one in Germany when I was like 12 years old...I begged my father to get me away from that place, as that guy with the fake rubber tits and the pink wig was just standing beneath me, laughing and acting all like a prostitute on the street...
Yeah, acceptance.
No scientific findings can accord for that kind of a depraved individual.

Your comment on gay parenting really express your ignorance. Gay parents wouldn't be a taboo if people doesnt make it to be, and if they wonder why or don't understand then we educate them. To start off with, orphanage children are already different with the fact that they were abandoned by their parents. But even if that is the case, gay parents wouldn't be a problem if, once again, ignorant people doesnt make a big deal out of it. Also your statement on how you wouldn't see them acting normal honestly really enrage me, a typical Christian argument almost. All major psychology associations had made it clear that there is no difference on the outcome of a child raised by gay parents as compared to straight parents. It also has no influenced on the child's sexuality, for one, I'm raised by straight parents and I can tell you almost all LGBT members were born and raised by straight parents, and they turned out gay.

Then you'd already know that they already know that their parents consisted a man, and a woman. They certainly wouldn't like the fact that they were adopted by two fathers, or mothers for that fact...
Like, there is no "difference"...I don't really know what kind of an impact it has on the sexuality of the children or whatsoever, but I'm sure it has an impact on the psyche of the children...
I'm pretty sure that a child would disapprove of his gay parents after he learned what kind of people they were...I certainly would tell them to send me back to the orphanage they found me in, for I do not want to be raised by two fathers/two mothers in any damn case.
But I'm also sure that gay parents certainly would spoil their children to the max in order to prevent this, so they can live their little dream, in order to feel "normal" where they're not. The fact is, I'm sure that gays do not want children at all. They just say that they want, and try to adopt them, or use surrogacy in order to feel more like the normal people they desperately try to imitate.

Go do a quick google search, You will find that many people who were raised by gay or lesbian parents turned out perfectly fine and straight and are speaking out in support for it. Infact one good benefit for children raised by gay parents is that they probably aren't narrow-minded and hateful.

I'm also sure that they also faced quite a lot of problems.
And I'm sure that those problems are not like anything they had to see.
And at the end, it's not those two homos who are suffering because of it, they already adopted the child, felt like "normal people", and one big family etc..
But how about the child? It's at the end, the child, who has to carry the burden of having two gay parents.
Turning out "perfectly fine" is, in my opinion, something that the liberal media makes up. I don't think that they turned out fine or whatever, I'm sure they hesitated to write the names of their parents on a job application, or any document where their parent's name were required or optional. I write my parent's name with pride. I surely would hesitate if they were like "Ismail" and "Mustafa". People would just assume that I were joking, and I too would probably laugh, and tell them that I was joking in order to avoid the shame of it.
And I wouldn't give a rat's ass even if they bought me fucktons of video games and showered me with money.

The problem I see is that generally people use "normal" as a gauge to wrong or right. Something to me can be not normal, but at the same time it doesn't make it wrong.

Someone understands.

Yeah i would say homosexuality isnt normal, but it is natural and common becausr it occurs throughout animilia kingdom including human, so it is normal in a sense it happens. besides who would want to be normal lol.

I certainly did not say it was not natural. It's about as natural as any birth defect, for that matter. For example, I've seen some girl on the internet who was born with two heads, and she is also quite healthy, you know. And such a thing is also very common throughout the animal kingdom, including human, but is it normal for that matter?

But your last statement is somewhat weird. Like who would want to be normal...Obviously you do, and your kind does too. IF not, why do you want to marry and become parents like the others?
It seems like you're simply trying to "normalize" homosexuality, due to the factors I've mentioned above. I'm quite sure that no homosexual is in true peace with him/herself.

"Normal" can be taken to mean statistically significantly more likely. However, in this thread, I believe kilic meant "normal" to mean "like me."

Even if I were to live in a society full of gays, and I were the only straight person, I'd still know that homosexuality is not normal, as only straight people can bring about children. The way it's supposed to be.
It certainly does not depend on any statistics or whatsoever. Even in a society where gay adoptions were pretty common, people would know that it's not normal.

[Shell B]

If you eliminated holy books, no one would think twice about it. All objections to homosexuality are religion-based, in my experience.

That "your kind" shit is off-putting, kilic. One of these days you are going to realize that you are a person and so is everyone else. Your race, gender and sexual orientation do not make you better or worse than anyone else. They just make you different from some.

[kılıç_mehmet]

If you eliminated holy books, no one would think twice about it. All objections to homosexuality are religion-based, in my experience.

That "your kind" shit is off-putting, kilic. One of these days you are going to realize that you are a person and so is everyone else. Your race, gender and sexual orientation do not make you better or worse than anyone else. They just make you different from some.

I eliminated holy books, that's true.
One needs no holy book to actually see that there is something wrong with homosexuality. Everyone is a "person", obviously, but at some point, we all have to answer to society as a whole.

[Shell B]

I eliminated holy books, that's true.

You didn't. That is the problem.

One needs no holy book to actually see that there is something wrong with homosexuality.

You're right. One only needs religious bias.

Everyone is a "person", obviously, but at some point, we all have to answer to society as a whole.

Yes, but why should someone have to answer for something that is harmless? That people are made uncomfortable, some people, is a moot point. If you wore a turban that might make people uncomfortable. Does that make wearing a turban wrong? Do you have to "answer to society" for it? The idea that someone should have to answer to society, and you by extension, for liking men is ludicrous. What business is it of yours, kilic?

I've said it before, sometimes you make excellent points. Other times, you come off as a hate-filled, overly proud peacock. An ounce of tolerance would not hurt you one bit.

[passionatefool]

Melmet,

I did not say gay parents are more loving than straight parents, but I'm saying gay parents are capable of being a loving parents, even more than a lot of straight parents. If you actually read you would know that I never even indicated that I said gays are more loving than straight so I dont know where you pulled that shit from.

You used term like "your kind" "Homos" to refer to us as if we aren't even human. I'm not going to be offended because your stupidity and ignorance isn't worthy of it. It only shows how narrow-minded and bigoted you are.

And yes only a man and woman makes babies but that doesn't automatically qualified them as capable of parenting. There are all sort of guardian and parents, single male parent, single female parent, straight parents, gay parents, and the capability of being a great parents is not determined by your sexuality. So I dont see how there is really a NORMAL parents with the fact that one set of parents is completely different from the next. And when the child find out what kind of people we are? Are you stupid or just ignorant? Do you think we are clone that every single one of us is like the other? This is just as bad and shallow as saying "All blacks are ghettos and criminals" "All Germans are Nazi" "all white are racist". Prejudice doesnt have the credibility to be considered as a worthy argument.

YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the reason why children who has gay parents suffer, because it is people like you that judge them and make their life and their parents lives a living hell. So I dont see why you would blame that on gays or lesbians when it is obviously a problem that isnt caused by us but by you and your "kind" of people. So I hardly think it is an argument when it is obviously not a problem if you and people like you quit being so shallow.

The gay parade in no way represent the LGBT community. LGBT people are in all part of lives, they are your doctor, co-worker, politicians, soldiers, friends even, half of the times you probably don't even know they are gay because they are so "normal". And you know what? judging us based on a few in the whole group is just plain discrimination, there is no way around it and you can call it whatever you want but the reality of it is that it is just plain discrimination. What is funny is that a large amount of LGBT doesnt even like those parade.

I am really through responding to you. I really do not need your acceptance, infact you can go around screaming your hate all you want. And you didn't just oppose gay adoption, you are pretty much opposing a whole group of people that exist everywhere around the world. People of ALL KINDS. It is funny how you try to put people in neat little boxes just like how theist would. It just reveals your fear for the unknown. Nothing is really normal, and you will find soon that your idea of "normal" doesnt fit the majority of this world.

I honestly do not have time to deal with homophobic atheists because I deal with the same group of people, except they are theist. So believe whatever you want. Give it more time when people are out of their bigot and prejudice mentality and you along with all the other homophobic atheists and theists will realize "damn i was the bad guy". Have fun.