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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 2:06 am
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2012 at 3:06 am by Reforged.)
(April 19, 2012 at 2:02 am)Drich Wrote: Quote:What I am representing is biblical Christianity.
What I am trying (and many others) have tried to do is take the scripture and apply it as a whole. We speak where the bible speaks and we remain silent where the bible is silent. Meaning there is freedom where the bible is silent to allow one to worship as he see best to worship God, while trying to remain the confines of the few remaining "Thou shalt nots."
Not possible, the Bible has been changed, changed and changed again numerous times over 2000 years. Even if you took every text from the oldest Bibles you could find there is no way you'd get anything more than a very, very, very small part of the original Bibles message. Probably not even that.
I look forward to your counter argument.
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 2:21 am
(April 19, 2012 at 2:06 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: (April 19, 2012 at 2:02 am)Drich Wrote: Quote:What I am representing is biblical Christianity.
What I am trying (and many others) have tried to do is take the scripture and apply it as a whole. We speak where the bible speaks and we remain silent where the bible is silent. Meaning there is freedom where the bible is silent to allow one to worship as he see best to worship God, while trying to remain the confines of the few remaining "Thou shalt nots."
Not possible, the Bible has been changed, changed and changed again numerous times over 2000 years. Even if you took every text from the oldest Bibles you could find there is no way you'd get anything more than 1% of the original Bibles message. Probably not even that.
I look forward to your counter argument.
No argument. I will how ever ask that you support your claim. If it has been changed as many times as you think it has, then there should be something somewhere that can support your position.
That is unless by change you mean to say "translations." If that is the case then you are correct. it has been changed or re translated from the Greek and Hebrew a couple of different ways.
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 2:23 am
Raphiel; Only 1%.? I had no idea it was as little as that. Would you mind giving me your source(s) for that figure?
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 2:27 am
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2012 at 3:09 am by Reforged.)
(April 19, 2012 at 2:23 am)padraic Wrote: Raphiel; Only 1%.? I had no idea it was as little as that. Would you mind giving me your source(s) for that figure?
Obviously not an actual statistic being quoted from a source. If you like I'll change it to a very, very, very small amount.
Would that help you move on and wipe your eyes?
(April 19, 2012 at 2:21 am)Drich Wrote: (April 19, 2012 at 2:06 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: (April 19, 2012 at 2:02 am)Drich Wrote: Quote:What I am representing is biblical Christianity.
What I am trying (and many others) have tried to do is take the scripture and apply it as a whole. We speak where the bible speaks and we remain silent where the bible is silent. Meaning there is freedom where the bible is silent to allow one to worship as he see best to worship God, while trying to remain the confines of the few remaining "Thou shalt nots."
Not possible, the Bible has been changed, changed and changed again numerous times over 2000 years. Even if you took every text from the oldest Bibles you could find there is no way you'd get anything more than a very, very, very small amount of the original Bibles message. Probably not even that.
I look forward to your counter argument.
No argument. I will how ever ask that you support your claim. If it has been changed as many times as you think it has, then there should be something somewhere that can support your position.
That is unless by change you mean to say "translations." If that is the case then you are correct. it has been changed or re translated from the Greek and Hebrew a couple of different ways.
You also have to take into account that the Bible is an accumalitive collection of entries. In other words, it was modified and added to with each entry and translation.
These are the Christian Bible versions I have found:
Septuagint - 250 A.D. Written in Greek
Vulgate- 400 A.D. First version of the Bible which is canonized at the Council of Carthage in 400 A.D. Written in Latin
Luther's German Bible- 1534 A.D.
King James Version- 1611 A.D. This is the most widely used versions however it has large number of errors given that none of the writers had a decent understanding of Hebrew.
Revised Standard Version- 1952 A.D. Literal translation into American English which used the earliest possible text
New International Version- 1960's & 70's A.D. This is a very good contemporary English version. Another good contemporary English version is New King James Version (NKJV)
The Youngs Literal Translation is as close to the originals as you can get, translated by Robert Young in 1898 A.D.
I haven't even taken into account the Jewish holy book, the Torah.
When you look at this how can you even dare to think that you have anything near the original message of the Bible after numerous changes spanning over 2000 years?
Simply not possible. You can't have the original message anymore than the Mormons can.
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 3:24 am
Quote:Obviously not an actual statistic being quoted from a source. If you like I'll change it to a very, very, very small amount.
Would that help you move on and wipe your eyes?
There's no need to be snide sonny; you made an absurd assertion without backing it up. Not necessary to make shit up when dealing with dropkicks like Drip.
A good source on this topic is "Miisquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman.
Quote:Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why is a book by Bart D. Ehrman, a New Testament scholar at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.[1] The book introduces lay readers to the field of textual criticism of the Bible. Ehrman discusses a number of textual variants that resulted from intentional or accidental manuscript changes during the scriptorium era. The book, which made it to the New York Times Best Seller list, is available in hardcover and paperback
SUMMARY
Quote:Ehrman recounts his personal experience with the study of the Bible and textual criticism. He summarizes the history of textual criticism, from the works of Desiderius Erasmus to the present. The book describes an early Christian environment in which the books that would later compose the New Testament were copied by hand, mostly by Christian amateurs. Ehrman concludes that various early scribes altered the New Testament texts in order to deemphasize the role of women in the early church, to unify and harmonize the different portrayals of Jesus in the four gospels, and to oppose certain heresies (such as Adoptionism). Ehrman contends that certain widely-held Christian beliefs, such about the divinity of Jesus, are associated not with the original words of scripture but with these later alterations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 5:35 am
.... because idiocity comes in all kinds of covers, shapes, and sizes
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 6:00 am
Can a mod change the title to "Why there are so many denominations". The current grammarfail hurts my brain when I read it.
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 6:07 am
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2012 at 6:09 am by NoMoreFaith.)
People disagree with People. You're not allowed to disagree with God.
So you interpret God a little different and bingo and version 200.34 is born.
Denominations is the reflection of Human intentions against what is allegedly absolute.
I actually respect Drich to a certain extent in that he seems to more or less dismiss all denominations as they have their own agendas which are not always "scripturally biblical" but have good intentions all the same. He just needs to realise that scriptually biblical is no different to any other interpretation, and equally dismissible.
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 9:27 am
(April 19, 2012 at 2:27 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: (April 19, 2012 at 2:23 am)padraic Wrote: Raphiel; Only 1%.? I had no idea it was as little as that. Would you mind giving me your source(s) for that figure?
Obviously not an actual statistic being quoted from a source. If you like I'll change it to a very, very, very small amount.
Would that help you move on and wipe your eyes?
(April 19, 2012 at 2:21 am)Drich Wrote: (April 19, 2012 at 2:06 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: (April 19, 2012 at 2:02 am)Drich Wrote: Quote:What I am representing is biblical Christianity.
What I am trying (and many others) have tried to do is take the scripture and apply it as a whole. We speak where the bible speaks and we remain silent where the bible is silent. Meaning there is freedom where the bible is silent to allow one to worship as he see best to worship God, while trying to remain the confines of the few remaining "Thou shalt nots."
Not possible, the Bible has been changed, changed and changed again numerous times over 2000 years. Even if you took every text from the oldest Bibles you could find there is no way you'd get anything more than a very, very, very small amount of the original Bibles message. Probably not even that.
I look forward to your counter argument.
No argument. I will how ever ask that you support your claim. If it has been changed as many times as you think it has, then there should be something somewhere that can support your position.
That is unless by change you mean to say "translations." If that is the case then you are correct. it has been changed or re translated from the Greek and Hebrew a couple of different ways.
You also have to take into account that the Bible is an accumalitive collection of entries. In other words, it was modified and added to with each entry and translation.
These are the Christian Bible versions I have found:
Septuagint - 250 A.D. Written in Greek
Vulgate- 400 A.D. First version of the Bible which is canonized at the Council of Carthage in 400 A.D. Written in Latin
Luther's German Bible- 1534 A.D.
King James Version- 1611 A.D. This is the most widely used versions however it has large number of errors given that none of the writers had a decent understanding of Hebrew.
Revised Standard Version- 1952 A.D. Literal translation into American English which used the earliest possible text
New International Version- 1960's & 70's A.D. This is a very good contemporary English version. Another good contemporary English version is New King James Version (NKJV)
The Youngs Literal Translation is as close to the originals as you can get, translated by Robert Young in 1898 A.D.
I haven't even taken into account the Jewish holy book, the Torah.
When you look at this how can you even dare to think that you have anything near the original message of the Bible after numerous changes spanning over 2000 years?
Simply not possible. You can't have the original message anymore than the Mormons can.
You do understand that each translation is not a re interpretation of the last? so your dates mean nothing as far as the content of the next bible is concerned. Each translation is literally taken from the oldest manuscript with the greatest provenance. One that has been under girded and confirmed with other copies of itself. No translation is a copy or reinterpretation of the preceding translation. Even the most modern copy of the bible is still taken from the originals.
Otherwise how is it you think I can go back and illiterate the original words in the Greek and Hebrew? Like the whole bit on Benevolence where i show God does not offer unconditional love He offers Agape' Love.
Agape' is a one of the 4 Koine Greek terms describing a very specific type of love. Which by it's definition is conditional. I know this because We have bibles still in the original Greek to look at and analyze. Then on top of that we have concordances and lexicons that break down each and every word and it places them side by side with the original and a break down of the intended use of the word and meaning.
I did not wake up one morning and decided to come here and start arguements as some have suggested. I have been working on the exegessis of the bible for the last 10 or more years. I am here because I am in a position to give what some of you are looking for.
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RE: Why their is so many denominations
April 19, 2012 at 9:37 am
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2012 at 9:43 am by The Grand Nudger.)
And where do all of these churches claim to be pulling their bullshit doctrines? Same place you pull yours. How do they claim to have achieved this? Same way you do. Let me help you out here. Which translation of the bible is your current favorite? You do realize that these books aren't printed in a vacuum right? Unless you have invented your own denomination of christianity (3 is a crowd but 30k is a clusterfuck btw) you are following one of the others, you simply avoid their churches. Good for you, so do I. It's already been mentioned to you that this whole "biblical christianity" bit is little more than pretense, has it not? Maybe you should address that before you get too smug about your particular denomination's claims to the truth against all of those heretics out there.
Speaking of bullshit that has been put into the mouth of your mythical god-man. Seems to me that quite a few gather at the catholic church. So I guess that means that he is among them?
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