Why Yahweh? (Or Allah, or Zeus, etc.)

[Mystic]

So, as I expected, it is all based on faith...

As is our belief in (objective) morals or (objective) praise or (objective) value.

The best way to refute them I would say is not on the epistemological ground, but to show evidence that their scriptures have verses that contradict each other or are illogical.

Of course one member acknowledges that but wants us to cherry pick the good parts, and believe those are inspired. What do do with him..I had one argument towards him, can't quite remember how he responded to it.

[Drich]

How do you know it wasn't Satan leading you away from Allah?

Based on all God has given me if 'Allah' calls my God 'Satan' and teaches others to do the same, then I am good with that!

You can't prove otherwise, now can you?

I don't need to. Just like you guys don't need to prove that Rome did not record anything about Jesus. It is a matter of faith. The question then becomes are you good with your faith as simple faith or do you need to pretend to justify it somehow?

For it is impossiable to please God (or satan depending on your POV) without faith. Faith I have.

[The Grand Nudger]

That would only show that a book had typos Mystic...lol. Which is why it's important to impress upon them that their gods are simply characters in a book, fully capable of contradicting themselves without poofing out of (or into) existence.

[Mystic]

Well I have arguments that show benevolence of God implies Deism due to various factors. Although the arguments are subjective nature, not that they are not true, but cannot be proven except ironically through faith.

For example, to value finding inner guidance within, over following authority.

Thinking for oneself as opposed to submitting to authority be they infallible or wrong.

Allowing freedom to chose and be wrong. Allowing a struggle of ideas without God dictating whom is right or wrong.

Finding values without being told them.

It depends on where your faith lies in morality and value. So ironically, maybe the best argument against religion comes down to faith. At least from a Deistic (mystic) perspective.

[John V]

Regarding Christianity v. Islam.

First, consider the principle that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, frequently quoted (but generally misapplied) by atheists.

Jesus used this principle himself:
John 14
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

The earliest Christian documents have Jesus performing miracles.

However, the earliest Muslim documents clearly say that Muhammed did not perform miracles, even when he was challenged to do so to support his claims.

While I can't conclusively prove that Jesus provided extraordinary evidence, there is some evidence of it. The Quran admits that Muhammed didn't provide such evidence.

That's the first differentiator between Christianity and Islam.

[The Grand Nudger]

Differentiates? Of course they're different? Would you like a short list of gods who have narratives of fantastic miracles attached for you to start worshipping?

[John V]

Differentiates? Of course they're different?

Differences in evidentiary basis between religions is the topic of the thread.

Would you like a short list of gods who have narratives of fantastic miracles attached for you to start worshipping?

If we're done with Islam, sure, although it's more orderly to take them one at a time.

[The Grand Nudger]

Differences in evidentiary basis between religions is the topic of the thread.

I see no difference in evidentiary basis here. I see a difference in un-evidenced claims.

If we're done with Islam, sure, although it's more orderly to take them one at a time.

I wish we were "done with islam"....and a whole host of other religions as well. Nevertheless, if we're going to hang our hat on claims of miracles that would lend as much support to a whole host of other gods as it would to the one you feel comfortable with, would it not?

[John V]

I see no difference in evidentiary basis here. I see a difference in un-evidenced claims.

First, you're technically incorrect, as the point is that such claims aren't even made by Islam in its earliest documents.

Second, if we were comparing miracle claims of two religions, I'm sure you would not see any difference in them. However, the question wasn't posed to you, nor was it a challenge to theists to convince atheists. The question was to theists, and asked how they differentiate evidence for their god from others.

I wish we were "done with islam"....and a whole host of other religions as well. Nevertheless, if we're going to hang our hat on claims of miracles that would lend as much support to a whole host of other gods as it would to the one you feel comfortable with, would it not?

We'll see. Again, pose specifics, and when I'm done with Islam (or seem to be) I'll address it.

[Darkstar]

We'll see. Again, pose specifics, and when I'm done with Islam (or seem to be) I'll address it.

Quran and miracles
You may be onto something. This is some pretty weak stuff, even by religious standards...