why there is a need to see in order to believe?

[genkaus]

It is not self esteem matter. It is just a concept of justice. If u love God you indirectly follow the do and dont. That would guide you to assess what is bad and what is not. Not from your perpectivebut from God perpective

Its your god's perspective that is corrupt and twisted.

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The fact that justice is guaranteed even after death in the day of judgment proves justice is served. Especially for those Unpunished criminals who escape punishment during his life time because of lack of evidence. That proves again The need for the existance heaven and hell

Actually, all it proves is that your god can't deliver it during the lifetime. Unless there is actual proof of justice being served in the afterlife (or that of an afterlife for that matter), all this god blather is simply wishful thinking.

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You are not suggesting unpunished criminal will not undergo any kind of punishment after death..are,'t you. It would not make sense and against logic

No, that would go against your wishful thinking. That is not the same as logic.

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Not just my desires but basic human need.

The universe is under no obligation to fulfill those.

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Unserved justice is acceptable in animal kingdom but not in human race. Every single sole is accountable for what they do in their lifetime

Prove it.

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Gilgamesh

I meant if you deprive the poor the need for food. They will end up stealing.

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IATA
English in not my spoken language.
I might interpret differently what finite means. Can you use anither word

Are you saying that all starving people are thieves?

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Prerequisite for believing the unseen is logic. Imagine you are blind and can't see a thing. Would you believe a car can't stand on its own with 2 tires. So you would logic instead since u can't see . Then you draw a logical conclusion without even seeing. Since It makes sense you start believing it

And your god doesn't make sense - so I don't.

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Darkstar

I would say my definition of. God is as follows

His attributes exceed human attributes limition.

Now try to find those limitations.

Example. All knowing. Normal human wouldn't remember what happen in 1900 without the help of history books. Even history book cannot tell what actually happenned at the time of Adam and Eve.

Actually, they can and do. Which is why we know that there were no Adam and Eve.

[Mister Agenda]

Mister Agenda.

Human always get what they desire or need for justice weather in a form of fortune or misfortune They just don't realize it. It Isjustit is not happening at the time that they want It to happen. It comes mistiriously out of no where sometimes . I Don make believe It will happen in after life but logic sense kicks in to say It has to happen. Otherwise unpunished childkiller just rot like that in the grave just like a good human.

Try to do injustice to your physical thing. Like a car. Sooner or later It will. Break down that is justice. In summary It is cause and effect phenomena. It has to happen someday in lifetime or afterdeath

the time when your get lucky is a time when the creater or God rewards you for the good deeds.

Luck or the lack thereof seems to evenly distributed. Even the Bible notes that it rains on the just and the unjust alike. Now, to the extent that someone abuses their own body and relationships and integrity, they will pay the price for that. To the extent that they abuse others, they may or may not suffer retribution.

That justice HAS to happen in every case is what you're asserting. It's what you have to make a case supporting if you expect other people to believe you, which you have not done. In fact, since you've brought in the afterlife, you have a ready-made evasion for not being able to support that justice is always done in this life. Logic is not on your side, all you have is the feeling that it should be so.

Unfortunately, unpunished child-killers DO rot in their graves just like good people; or if not, we have no way of knowing it.

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Prerequisite for believing the unseen is logic. Imagine you are blind and can't see a thing. Would you believe a car can't stand on its own with 2 tires. So you would logic instead since u can't see . Then you draw a logical conclusion without even seeing. Since It makes sense you start believing it

I don't think the word 'logic' means what you think it means. The prerequisite for accepting the existence of something that can't be perceived with our natural senses is that it must have strong evidence in its favor.

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There isn't. There's a need for evidence.

Kind of ironic since there are many atheists who make claims about religion for which there actually exists no evidence.....well evidence in the academic sense, which to be honest, is the only evidence that means a damn.

It would only be ironic if the 'many atheists' you're talking about post here. Care to cite?

I don't doubt some atheists say stupid things, that's the human condition, not the atheist one.

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teaearlgreyhot

You would not be able to seee since you wo.uld be so impressed or too scared then pass out. When you wake up you can't recall what he looks like and start to add your side of story here and there.

So you're saying God can't be seen and remembered even if he wants to be?

Like most Muslims (and other theists), your God can't do whatever would be inconvenient for your argument of the moment for him to do.

[Minimalist]

Minimalist

You would be shitting in your pants if ghost make himself visible infront of you. What more do you expect if supreme being shows up to deliver the message.

I may shit in my pants but it won't be because your silly god...or his fucking prophet (FHUTA) shows up delivering messages, sonny.

The odds of your boy being real are about the same as quetzlcoatl being real.

[paulpablo]

i believe in oxygen and other things i cant see because of scientific theory and the fact it makes sense to believe in these things. Religions are the main reason i think there probably isnt a god, would he really send down little snippets of information to certain people at certain times which in turn create religious wars, tell the aztecs they need to kill people as a sacrifice, help the jewish tribes, the vikings and the romans commit genocide and other acts of war?
I think there probably is no god but if there was in regards to the islamic belief i dont think his best attempt to communicate with me would be through a 1500 year old book written in a language i cant understand which due to idioms and language complications has even divided the muslim world and still causes wars between them now.

[KichigaiNeko]

paul.

PLEASE don't resurrect old threads. IF you find the question interesting then start a new one This one is two months old and done to death, necroposting is a major social faux pas.

[Whateverist]

Yeah, I did it too when I first got here. If the subject already existed, it actually seemed more fitting somehow to put what I had to say there. Perhaps the guidance to avoid doing this needs to be made more prominent at the time of signing up since that is when we all tend to do it.

Really, paulpablo, don't hesitate to start a new thread on the same topic if you like. Happens all the time and this place has a pretty steady influx of new blood so there are probably plenty of us who also have not had that conversation.

[Brian37]

Any athiest can answer the above

You have no clue what the word "observation" means in scientific method. If you did you wouldn't ask such a stupid question.