What things are bad in Islam?

[Confused Ape]

Just trying to take an historical context view of Aisha's marriage.

We're looking at it from our modern Western world view. We find it appalling that a nine year old girl should have sexual intercourse even if she's reached puberty. We have very good reasons for finding it appalling too and should be making a stand against it in the 21st Century no matter what somebody's religion says. If, on the other hand, we had been living in 7th Century Arabia we wouldn't have seen anything wrong where Aisha's age was concerned.

Was Mohammed a pedophile?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).[1][2][3][4][5] An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]

If all his wives had been Aisha's age when he married them we would have good reason for thinking he was according to our modern definition. His wives were various ages when he married them, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed%27s_wives

His first wife was 15 years older than him. Some of his later wives were widows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safiyya_bint_Huyayy

Safiyya bint Huyayy was a 17 year old widow - we allow 17 year old girls to get married in the UK with their parents' or guardian's consent. This could have been a political marriage to form an alliance with a Jewish tribe.

I'm not defending Muhammed's marriage to Aisha here because he could have changed the custom but didn't. I'm guessing it's because he was a man of his place and time so the custom seemed so 'normal' that he didn't think about it.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Response to PaulPablo:
I personally see no problem with Jizya tax. In societies people have to pay taxes. In an Islamic society the Muslims pay one tax and certain non-muslims pay another. This benefits the non-muslim not hampers them. Firstly they don't have to pay the Islamic tax they pay a tax that is much less. This tax exempts the non-muslim from paying Zakat, saving them money, grants them protection by the Islamic state, exempts them from military service and gave them a measure of communal autonomy.
This is better than paying the normal tax as then they have to pay Zakat and it is compulsory for them to partake in military service. They only benefit.

---

Just trying to take an historical context view of Aisha's marriage.

We're looking at it from our modern Western world view. We find it appalling that a nine year old girl should have sexual intercourse even if she's reached puberty. We have very good reasons for finding it appalling too and should be making a stand against it in the 21st Century no matter what somebody's religion says. If, on the other hand, we had been living in 7th Century Arabia we wouldn't have seen anything wrong where Aisha's age was concerned.

Was Mohammed a pedophile?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).[1][2][3][4][5] An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]

If all his wives had been Aisha's age when he married them we would have good reason for thinking he was according to our modern definition. His wives were various ages when he married them, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed%27s_wives

His first wife was 15 years older than him. Some of his later wives were widows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safiyya_bint_Huyayy

Safiyya bint Huyayy was a 17 year old widow - we allow 17 year old girls to get married in the UK with their parents' or guardian's consent. This could have been a political marriage to form an alliance with a Jewish tribe.

I'm not defending Muhammed's marriage to Aisha here because he could have changed the custom but didn't. I'm guessing it's because he was a man of his place and time so the custom seemed so 'normal' that he didn't think about it.

I 100% agree.

[fr0d0]

The role of the gaurdian is to protect the Women. In pre-islamic times men just married women against there will. Men could inherit there brother wives etc. Islam came to stop this. And introduced the system of the Gaurdian. The Gaurdian has to have the best interests of the girl at heart and is there to protect her from anything that could harm her. If he objects to the marriage and provides no reason for it then she can still get married. The gaurdian isn't there to hamper the women but to protect her.

You misunderstand. Mohammed was idolised as a prophet in his time, of course anyone and everyone would be very keen to get him to marry their daughter. Mohammed here makes no mention of morality... by marryine a girl of 9 where modern society clearly judges this to be innapropriate at best, and abusive at worst.

[Confused Ape]

Mohammed here makes no mention of morality... by marryine a girl of 9 where modern society clearly judges this to be innapropriate at best, and abusive at worst.

Well, he wouldn't have made any mention of morality because he didn't live in modern Western society. Even today, the age of consent varies in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_Europe

The age of consent in Spain is 13, as specified by the Spanish Penal Code, Article 181(2). However, if deceit is used in gaining the consent of a minor under 16 years an individual can be charged under Article 183(1) upon parental complaint.

The age of consent in Turkey is the age of majority (set at 18 as per Article 11 of the Turkish Civil Code).

The age of consent in Azerbaijan is 16.

I looked Turkey up in wikipedia and found that 97% or 98% of the population are Muslims although it's a secular state with no official state religion. I then looked up Azerbaijan in wiki and found that 95% of the population are Muslims. It's another secular country where everyone is free to follow any religion or none at all.

I have no idea how many atheists have spent all their lives in Spain but, if there are any, it's likely that they don't see anything wrong with the age of consent being 13. Meanwhile, most Muslims in Turkey probably regard the UK age of consent as being immoral.

[The Magic Pudding]

I'm always open to challenging Islam and the Qur'an. So i was wondering what peoples viewpoints on Islam are. Like what things do you see as bad.

It is a religion, an old religion that can and has been used to justify evil deeds.

[Cyberman]

While I recognise and agree with the absurdity of judging another and earlier culture with our modern Western standards, let's just recap a little here.

I'm not defending Muhammed's marriage to Aisha here because he could have changed the custom but didn't. I'm guessing it's because he was a man of his place and time so the custom seemed so 'normal' that he didn't think about it.

Just as Confused Ape says, Muhammad could have changed the custom of his day, but didn't. So what we end up with is a revered religious figure with a divine revelation who apparently wasn't enlightened enough to figure out what we now hold to be abhorrent. Clearly he didn't think of it; doesn't anyone feel that, as a messenger of a god, perhaps he should have?

[jonb]

This is the essential problem with theism. A god which chooses expediency, over morality looses the right to judge.
If morality is unchanging there can be no defence that it was good at this time and not that. If on the other hand morality depends on the situation claims for constant judge fall apart. Either way the the theist view of a constant good judge is impossible to support.

[Waratah]

The role of the gaurdian is to protect the Women. In pre-islamic times men just married women against there will. Men could inherit there brother wives etc. Islam came to stop this. And introduced the system of the Gaurdian. The Gaurdian has to have the best interests of the girl at heart and is there to protect her from anything that could harm her. If he objects to the marriage and provides no reason for it then she can still get married. The gaurdian isn't there to hamper the women but to protect her.

Why does a women need to get approval from a guardian and why doesn't a man need approval from a guardian?(sexiest)
Can you please back up you statement "In pre-islamic times men just married women against there will."
Protect her from what exactly?
What about the man's protection?
Why not 2 female witnesses?
Why not a groom gift?

[Confused Ape]

Why not a groom gift?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahr

In Islam, a mahr (in Arabic: مهر‎; also transliterated mehr, meher, or mahrieh) is a mandatory required amount of money or possessions (usually a combination of the two), paid by the groom to the bride at the time of marriage, (nikah), for her exclusive use. While the mahr is often money, it can also be anything agreed upon by the bride such as jewelry, home goods, furniture, a dwelling (the husband is already required to provide a home for his wife, but in this case she would retain ownership of it and he would pay for it), or even a viable business that is put in her exclusive ownership and can be run entirely by her if she chooses.

Going by that a groom gift would be a woman giving her husband money and possessions for his exclusive use.

Just as Confused Ape says, Muhammad could have changed the custom of his day, but didn't. So what we end up with is a revered religious figure with a divine revelation who apparently wasn't enlightened enough to figure out what we now hold to be abhorrent. Clearly he didn't think of it; doesn't anyone feel that, as a messenger of a god, perhaps he should have?

I think this is a far better argument against Islam than trying to imply that every Muslim male in the world wants to have sex with 9 year old girls just because they're Muslims.

[paulpablo]

which hadith or quran verse did you get the info about jizyah? just wondering