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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 5, 2014 at 8:23 pm
(This post was last modified: May 5, 2014 at 8:36 pm by Lek.)
(May 5, 2014 at 7:38 pm)ThomM Wrote: (May 5, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Lek Wrote: You're right, even many christians don't claim to know indisputably who the authors were and what the dates of writing are. At the same time, all your comments don't prove the dates of writing or authorship either. There's huge numbers of people on both sides with agendas to prove or disprove christianity. When I study the scriptures, written by different authors over 1,500 years and see their continuity and integrity, I choose to accept them as the word of God. That, combined with my lifetime experience and the testimony of others, supports my acceptance of christianity.
Quote:Sop = what YOU are saying is that YOU accept the gods that are written in the bible - ALL OF THEM - since YOU say they have integrity
SO YOU accept these gods
No, just the God which the bible claims to be the true god.
Quote:The problem is - most xtians - have not actually read the bible
I have - from cover to cover - a number of times
Sadly, most christians have not read the whole bible, but fortunately that's not a requirement for salvation.
Quote:ANd the problem is - when xtians like you cherry pick the parts you want to beleive - - WE know that there are contradictions - errors - and MYTH and LEGEND in the bible without question.
Not without question. That's some peoples opinion and not others. I also don't cherry pick.
Quote:Of course - the biggest question is - according to the bible - the Messiah will unite ALL of the world under one religion (Judaism) and have all others admit that their belief was false ( As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
Yes. And it will happen.
Quote:The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). A person without a human father cannot fulfill that one either
Joseph was his father. It doesn't say he had to be his genetic father.
Quote:And the claim of a NEW COVENANT - replacing the old - admit that the god LIES. If the god was ALL knowing - past -present and future - then it would have KNOWN when it made the first Covenant with man - that is was NOT going to live up to it - so the word of the god is worthless since it lies - IN THE BIBLE.
He did know that man was not going to live up to it. Part of the purpose of the covenant was to demonstrate that fact. We know that we must rely on him to be saved.
Quote:If we use the entire bible as a source - the bible itself proves itself false.
We'll all decide that for ourselves.
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 5, 2014 at 8:29 pm
I still want to know what the Christian symbol would be if the Romans had sodomised Jesus to death.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 5, 2014 at 8:38 pm
(May 5, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Beccs Wrote: I still want to know what the Christian symbol would be if the Romans had sodomised Jesus to death.
Funny - not!
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 5, 2014 at 8:40 pm
(May 5, 2014 at 8:38 pm)Lek Wrote: (May 5, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Beccs Wrote: I still want to know what the Christian symbol would be if the Romans had sodomised Jesus to death.
Funny - not!
Depends on your perspective.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 6, 2014 at 10:23 am
(May 5, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Beccs Wrote: I still want to know what the Christian symbol would be if the Romans had sodomised Jesus to death.
I don't know, but I suspect it would have something to do with Jesus in a gimp outfit.
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 6, 2014 at 10:50 am
I know for a fact there's an image of that floating round the intertubes. I trust nobody will be so crude as to pollute my thread with it? 
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 6, 2014 at 1:27 pm
(May 5, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Lek Wrote: When I study the scriptures, written by different authors over 1,500 years and see their continuity and integrity, I choose to accept them as the word of God. But the continuity and integrity errors start with the creation accounts.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 6, 2014 at 6:53 pm
(May 5, 2014 at 8:23 pm)Lek Wrote: [quote='ThomM' pid='664857' dateline='1399333136']
No, just the God which the bible claims to be the true god.
Which is the JEWISH god Yahweh - as claimed in the Old Testament
AND the Jewish god is singular -not a trinity
Sadly, most christians have not read the whole bible, but fortunately that's not a requirement for salvation.
There is NO need for salvation - there is nothing to be saved from that is real.
Not without question. That's some peoples opinion and not others. I also don't cherry pick.
So then YOU accept that when a woman is raped by a man - she must marry that man - that is a law of god in the bible.
Yes. And it will happen.
Really - a belief is not truth
Joseph was his father. It doesn't say he had to be his genetic father.
Sorry - Line - when mentioned in this context in hebrew - MEANS bloodline - through the male. Joseph was in no way the christ's "father" - via bloodline. The christ cannot be the messiah - because he cannot have fulfilled the requirements in the bible to be the messiah - and this is just one he cannot fulfill. The messiah was to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - but during the supposed time of the christ - the temple had not yet been destroyed again - it was the wrong time.
Quote:And the claim of a NEW COVENANT - replacing the old - admit that the god LIES. If the god was ALL knowing - past -present and future - then it would have KNOWN when it made the first Covenant with man - that is was NOT going to live up to it - so the word of the god is worthless since it lies - IN THE BIBLE.
He did know that man was not going to live up to it. Part of the purpose of the covenant was to demonstrate that fact. We know that we must rely on him to be saved.
[quote]
So - he made a commitment that HE did not live up with as well - A lie - without question. AND just one of many in the bible
As I noted - in the bible - a person who says something that does not happen is designated at False Prophet and should be ignored. The christ said that there would be some who would not die - before he returned in glory - and there is STILL no one alive from that era. Based on the bible itself - the christ is False.
So if the bible is true - as YOU claim - then I can use the bible to prove the religion wrong
You can ignore it - but then that is the indoctrination coming through
I
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 9, 2014 at 8:48 pm
(May 5, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Lek Wrote: (May 5, 2014 at 5:45 pm)ThomM Wrote: And the problem with dating the writings of the bible is that - we do not even know for sure who actually wrote them - so claiming dates is a effort in nonsense (Remember -we do not accept religious writings as anything but MYTH - unless you have OUTSIDE proof in other documents not from the religion)
You're right, even many christians don't claim to know indisputably who the authors were and what the dates of writing are. At the same time, all your comments don't prove the dates of writing or authorship either. There's huge numbers of people on both sides with agendas to prove or disprove christianity. When I study the scriptures, written by different authors over 1,500 years and see their continuity and integrity, I choose to accept them as the word of God. That, combined with my lifetime experience and the testimony of others, supports my acceptance of christianity.
"written by different authors over 1,500 years and see their continuity and integrity,"
You are reading your leather bound tome with rose coloured glasses. The books are fundamentally inconsistent.
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RE: What if the Romans hadn't killed Jesus?
May 9, 2014 at 8:54 pm
(May 6, 2014 at 10:50 am)Stimbo Wrote: I know for a fact there's an image of that floating round the intertubes. I trust nobody will be so crude as to pollute my thread with it?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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