Hate the belief, not the believer

[Thumpalumpacus]

If a Christian lives by his proclaimed tenets, I'm fine.

Fuck that! History has already shown us what happens when Christians live by their proclaimed tenets; wasn't pretty. I'm rather fond of the side of Christians that make them hypocritical in relation to their beliefs; same side that makes them humane.

Fair point -- I s'pose I was talking more about the kinder, gentler Jesus stuff.

As many times as I've plumped for encouraging beneficial cherry-picking, it's a little embarrassing to be caught out like this.

[robvalue]

It is ironic that the better someone is at being a Christian, the worse they are as a person. And as they become a worse christian, they become a better person. That's my hypothesis. Feel free to investigate.

Same goes for islam, of course.

I openly encourage people to be terrible christians and Muslims. We'll all be better off for it, and it seems to make fuck all difference to god(s).

[Thumpalumpacus]

Mazactly, I was posting before thinking ... never a good thing.

[Homeless Nutter]

Most people internalize their beliefs, so any expression of hatred toward those beliefs is perceived as personal attack. It is understandable - to an extent. I feel personally offended, when someone I know calmly imagines me, or people close to me tortured for eternity. It's hard to "like", or feel comfortable with someone, who's brain at times seems to work like that of a sociopath, or even straight-up passive-aggressive psycho. We may not hate mentally ill people - but we still don't particularly want to be around them, because it's not safe.

Believers seem to see atheism as a "cult of death", because we can accept non-existence after death, while they can't even imagine it, without pissing their pants. They probably see any attempt at undermining their complete denial of death, as a personal attack, because it appears to them that atheists wish them to be annihilated. And - I imagine - that's a worse prospect, than heaven/hell gamble, they've adopted from an early age to deal with the finite nature of human existence.
Consequently, they may also assume that we'd rather vanish, than take our chances with god, because we've committed, or want to commit evil deeds and we're trying to avoid punishment, while giving up on the one thing the faithful hold dearest - promised reward of ideal existence.

So, my point is - it can be difficult to separate believers and their beliefs - on both sides of the fence. After all, as non-believers, the only way we get "inconvenienced" by religion is through the medium of annoying and pompous primates, who expose us to it and its effects (like lack of education, xenophobia, bigotry). Fairy tales and horror stories are fine in a book. It's trying to bring them to life in a literal manner, that is harmful. Even if believers "mean well" when they unleash their fears on other people - it's still often best to just avoid them. And I find it difficult to not hate people I need to avoid, for my own safety and comfort - especially when there are so many of them around.

[GrandizerII]

If I had to hate someone, it wouldn't be for merely their beliefs but how they treat me. That's if I had to hate someone.

[robvalue]

[Losty]

If I had to hate someone, it wouldn't be for merely their beliefs but how they treat me. That's if I had to hate someone.

I don't literally mean to hate them. I just say it because I took a popular Christian phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner" and made it secular. I am trying to get a feel on how far a person can go action wise and I can still say "well, yea, but they're deluded by their beliefs. It's not their fault".
At what point does the personal responsibility kick in? I just...I have a bad habit of making excuses for people who do crappy things to me. Usually there's a pretty clear line, but when it comes to religion I have a harder time.

[Homeless Nutter]

Well... If we are to believe "wishy-washy" and possibly dishonest Christian sentiments - god LOVES the sinners. Still, he can subject them to tortures and disasters, not to mention neglect - in this life and the next. If that's love - sure, I can love the believers. Where's my whip?

[GrandizerII]

If I had to hate someone, it wouldn't be for merely their beliefs but how they treat me. That's if I had to hate someone.

I don't literally mean to hate them. I just say it because I took a popular Christian phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner" and made it secular. I am trying to get a feel on how far a person can go action wise and I can still say "well, yea, but they're deluded by their beliefs. It's not their fault".
At what point does the personal responsibility kick in? I just...I have a bad habit of making excuses for people who do crappy things to me. Usually there's a pretty clear line, but when it comes to religion I have a harder time.

The way I see it is just because it's not their fault the way they are does not mean that one cannot reasonably hate them (or rather dislike/detest them) for the stuff they may do to others.

I don't have to hold anyone personally responsible for anything in order to have a strong dislike of the person. If that person kept unapologetically abusing me to no end, I could care less about whether they could help it or not. What they did was continually invoke unpleasant feelings in me towards them through their actions that I cannot but detest them ... and also feel pity for them as well.

[robvalue]

That's right. Hating someone does not hurt them. So it really doesn't matter. What matters is actions. If that hate caused you to do something to them that you otherwise wouldn't, then that becomes a problem. As far as I'm concerned, thoughts don't hurt anyone.

So I agree, go ahead and hate someone who has hurt you. It's a natural reaction. I would also guess that trying to stifle that emotion may make it harder for you to deal with what has happened in the long term. And hate tends to fade over time, if it is not reignited.