Islam, a growing threat to the free world?

[fr0d0]

When we're all Islamic, the extremists will need to find another cause.

[Sami]

I don't think Islam, if independant of sharia law, is necessarily a threat to the free world.

Its much more likely of course that sharia law could eventually come to dominate because of the spread of Islam but our pluralist ideals don't allow us to prevent it.

[DeistPaladin]

When we're all Islamic, the extremists will need to find another cause.

Then they'll kill each other over distinctions between Shia and Sunni.

If everyone becomes Sunni, they'll kill each other over further hair-splitting distinctions.

There can never be peace with religions like this. No amount of conformity will please the fanatics.

Jews and Christians agree on the definition of God Paladin.

They may tell you that. They might even believe it if they aren't familiar with the OT and NT. However, if you read the OT and NT, you see two different gods.

OT: Physical, anthropomorphic, walks, talks, eats lunch with Abraham, wrestles with Jacob, etc.
NT: "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), non-physical

OT: Jealous god, demanding of direct attention, forbids an intercessor (see Is 40:10-12)
NT: Distant god, unreachable by mortals and requires an intercessor (see John 14:6)

OT: You can have a relationship with Yahweh without Jesus
NT: You can't have a relationship with Yahweh without Jesus

OT: Keep laws, system of atonement by animal sacrifice, prayer, etc.
NT: Throw out laws, system of atonement by faith, belief in Jesus

OT: No afterlife. Only Sheol.
NT: Afterlife with two possible destinations.

OT: Satan is the tempter working for Yahweh
NT: Satan is the arch nemesis of Jesus, rebelled against Yahweh long ago

OT: Yahweh directly interacts with characters in the Bible, wrestles with Jacob, speaks face-to-face to Moses, gives a public speech to Judea (Judges 1:1) eats lunch with Abraham, smites Onan and other characters, shows off his dick to Ezekiel (described as a column of fire), etc.
NT: Yahweh retreats into a distant backdrop while son Jesus takes center stage. Only interaction is speaking from the sky at Jesus' baptism and at his transfiguration. Yahweh is more a plot device than an interactive character.

OT: Messiah is a warlord who leads Israel to victory and conquers the world
NT: Messiah is a lamb of God who preaches peace and has come not just for the Jews but all of humanity

OT: Yahweh is the god of the Jews only.
NT: Yahweh is the god of all people of the world and wants everyone to come to the faith.

Of course Jews won't automatically accept that Jesus was the messiah, but many do.

That would make them Christians, by definition.

Islam re-writes the Jewish God to be something conflicting.

Yahweh got a rewrite in the NT too.

[Edwardo Piet]

You made definite statements there Evie and as such onus is upon you to back them up. That isn't how God is portrayed in his book, it's how people with an agenda deliberately misrepresent how he's portrayed in his book. Now obviously you can't substantiate your accusations, so to be honest you shouldn't make them.

As far as I'm concerned I'm stating what is written. Do you expect me to substantiate what is or isn't written? What I claim is written is or not. I mentioned my sources. I thought you'd know the Bible, being a Christian. Do you claim that what I claim is written in the Bible is not?

[fr0d0]

What is written isn't what you're quoting Evie. What you're quoting is misinterpretation. Research it for yourself and you'll see that none of your accusations of it hold water. You're believing something without finding out the truth for yourself. I know the bible, which is why I can confidently say that.

@ Paladin you suffer from similar inaccuracies. Jacob wrestled with an angel & not God. God in Genesis is spirit. Yes Jesus interprets God more accurately.. states what is really important over what is unimportant and has become the practice as documented. God is never seen in the OT. Of course Judaism and Christianity are not the same, I never said they were. I just said that it's the same God, and that stands. Jew's that accept Jesus as messiah are usually Christians, yes. Christianity didn't change God, Islam changes his nature so that it conflicts with the Judaic God.

[DeistPaladin]

@ Paladin you suffer from similar inaccuracies. Jacob wrestled with an angel & not God.

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

God in Genesis is spirit.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day.

Do spirits normally walk?

Gen 18:1-5 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

Apparently spirits eat too.

Here's some more from the OT:

Ez 1:27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

Apparently Yahweh is hot and well hung

God is never seen in the OT.

Just one example:
Ex 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

[Dotard]

Then what you understand is false dotard

Bullshit. Please enlighten me on how any character can kill babies and intentionally inflict physical harm on a human and NOT be accurately described as Evie has described him.

And just to let you know, all predictions of your (non)response have been registered and betting is closed. Make it a good one, I got lots of money riding on it.

[Dotard]

(**crickets chirping **)

[fr0d0]

Stand aside... Dotard has spoken...

Babies die = God killed them - erm... no.
People say God told them to do it... no
God kills justly (murder = unjust killing) no
God murders - no where in the bible

...hmm - we seem to have run out.

[Jaysyn]

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@ Paladin you suffer from similar inaccuracies. Jacob wrestled with an angel & not God.

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

God in Genesis is spirit.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day.

Do spirits normally walk?

Gen 18:1-5 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

Apparently spirits eat too.

Here's some more from the OT:

Ez 1:27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

Apparently Yahweh is hot and well hung

God is never seen in the OT.

Just one example:
Ex 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

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Well DeistPaladin just won this thread, next!