Islam, a growing threat to the free world?

[fr0d0]

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jacob, just like everyone else, never saw the face of God. He felt so close that he described it to be like seeing the face of God.

God in Genesis is spirit.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day.
Do spirits normally walk?

The whole of the Adam and Eve story is allegorical. Adam and Eve never existed.

Gen 18:1-5 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

Apparently spirits eat too.

3 heavenly beings in human bodies One Abraham thought was the son of God. This isn't God, but God in messengers.

Here's some more from the OT:

Ez 1:27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

Apparently Yahweh is hot and well hung

Not in this apparition perhaps.

God is never seen in the OT.

Just one example:
Ex 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Moses never saw God. At the high point of there meeting God tells Moses that he will see where God has been. That's the closest recorded meeting.

[Jaysyn]

I love how the DeistPaladin can give you quotes out of your own holy book proving you wrong (or at least it would if any of it was real to start with) & you handwave it away. Your mental gymnastics are nothing less than amazing.

[Dotard]

Stand aside... Dotard has spoken...

Babies die = God killed them - erm... no.
People say God told them to do it... no
God kills justly (murder = unjust killing) no
God murders - no where in the bible

...hmm - we seem to have run out.

Frodo, you have just demonstrated, without any doubt, that you have never read the bible. Nit-picked and spoon fed portions of it I'm sure, but never read it.

Thank You.

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Jacob, just like everyone else, never saw...blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.....

LOL! What a load of bullocks! Fuck man he gave you the fucking verse and you still say "Moses never...." "Jacob never..." "ALLEGORICAL...."

Intellectual bankrupcy. Intellectual dishonesty. How the fuck can anyone have a rational discourse about the bible with you when it's fucking obvious you are not using the bible as the source of information but are using your own made up brand of revelation.

This forum has a "No Insults" rule Fr0d0, and you are fucking insulting everyones intellegence here.

Jeezus Christ... if there ever was a valid reason for euthanasia or retroactive abortions, that behavior would be it.

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Your mental gymnastics are nothing less than amazing.

I disagree. There is nothing 'gymnastic' about Fr0d0's weasling, much less amazing.


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Edited to remove a personal insult. Sorry. Apologies.
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[DeistPaladin]

I remember suddenly a quote from the Rachael Maddow Show where she's interviewing a "doctor" who claims to be able to "cure the gay", his name escapes me:

Cure-the-gay-guy: "You're taking it out of context"
Maddow: "No, I'm reading your book, dude."

Seriously, I'm reading your book. You're reading things that aren't there. There's a logical fallacy at work here called "Ad hoc hypothesis". I won't belabor any of your points except for one that interested me:

The whole of the Adam and Eve story is allegorical. Adam and Eve never existed.

1. Why list rivers in the story of Genesis? (See Gen 2:10-14) You don't put an allegorical event on the map. Why discuss geneology to Noah (Gen chapter 5)? These are the kinds of details you don't go into when the entire story is meant to be taken as allegory.

2. Yahweh told Moses that he'd created the universe in six literal days (Ex. 20:11).

3. The Bible lists the genealogy of Jesus and traces it back to Adam (Luke 3:38).

4. Paul believed in a literal Adam (Rom 5:12-14). Jesus seems to as well, though he doesn't call Adam by name (Mark 10:6).

...and my favorite...

5. If Adam and Eve never existed, how'd "the fall" happen then?

[theVOID]

Once again, you've been Paladin Pwned!

[Watson]

That's wasn't a 'pwn' by any stretch of the imagination...it was more like a weak-wristed slap. Teehee.

[fr0d0]

More like a slap at thin air as it totally missed it's target. Seriously guys, if you think there's any point made there you're deluded.

Dotard - that's the fact of the matter - read and understand dude - don't believe the lies.

1. Why list rivers in the story of Genesis? (See Gen 2:10-14) You don't put an allegorical event on the map. Why discuss geneology to Noah (Gen chapter 5)? These are the kinds of details you don't go into when the entire story is meant to be taken as allegory.
If you take most of that stuff to be literal you have to be smoking something, in my honest opinion. The world and animals (including us) exist... there's a grain of truth in that too.

2. Yahweh told Moses that he'd created the universe in six literal days (Ex. 20:11).
Nothing literal there

3. The Bible lists the genealogy of Jesus and traces it back to Adam (Luke 3:38).
Yeah it's to prove something to the Jews. Tracing back to Abraham - yeah. Adam... bit of a joke. We're all descended from the first aren't we?

4. Paul believed in a literal Adam (Rom 5:12-14). Jesus seems to as well, though he doesn't call Adam by name (Mark 10:6).
I believe the fall explains our natural state beautifully as well. It doesn't mean I think it's literal.

5. If Adam and Eve never existed, how'd "the fall" happen then?
You've got to be kidding me? You're an atheist literalist then? Makes me laugh kinda. It's a story dude. snakes don't and never have talked. There never was a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Sorry to break it to you. Please try not to be too upset

[Dotard]

More like a slap at thin air as it totally missed it's target. Seriously guys, if you think there's any point made there you're deluded.

'Tis you who are deluded Mr. Frodo. You make the contention if anyone disagrees with you and your own brand of divine revelation is deluded, yet simultaneously demonstrate your own delusions on the matter.

Dotard - that's the fact of the matter - read and understand dude - don't believe the lies.

Been there, done that. Quite obvious you have not.

[DeistPaladin]

It's way past time for me to say Q.E.D. as it's obvious I'm not having a discussion with a rational person here.

I'll conclude by saying there's something I do admire about the Fundy. They at least take their scripture to the logical conclusion. Granted, they come up with laughable scenarios like the 6,000 year old earth, light created en route from the stars and humans living with dinosaurs but at least they're consistent.

The liberal Christian, on the other hand, wants to slap the label "allegory" on events in Genesis that not only have bloodlines (you don't trace your ancestry back to Luke Skywalker or other fictional characters) but are events critical to the very theology of Christianity. Without a literal "fall from grace", as described in Genesis, there's nothing for Jesus to save us from. You need too come up with some way that sin entered the world or else admit that Yahweh created us as sinful beings (and then sent himself to sacrifice himself to convince himself to forgive us for being what he made in the first place).

And yet, these same liberal Christians will ironically slap the label "true history" on the New Testament. Jesus literally was sent by virgin birth through a bloodline traced to a fictional character to save us from the sins brought into the world by fictional events? Paul is said to provide evidence for the resurrection in 1Cor 15 (while, by the way, denying that Jesus had lived within his lifetime at 1Cor 15:8) and yet this same Paul isn't taken seriously when he refers to a literal Adam of history?

Liberal Christianity, one that accepts evolution and treats some parts but not others of the Bible as "allegory", is actually less rational than the fundy's position that everything in the Bible is the literal Word of God. Moderate Christians want to hold the Bible up as the Word of God and then proceed to treat it like it's a buffet table where preferred parts can be taken and others ignored, as if they'll say to their own god, "this part I'll accept but that part I won't."

The fundy I get. The liberal Christian, I don't.

[Jaysyn]

The fundy I get. The liberal Christian, I don't.

It's pure DoubleThink.