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How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
#31
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 16, 2015 at 11:18 pm)TRJF Wrote:
(July 16, 2015 at 11:16 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I don't, generally, as long as it stays in America. It's when it starts spilling out into the rest of the world that I get concerned. Remember that the US has big, big bombs.

Um, duh, it spills out into the rest of the world because god picked us to lead the white people and blow up the other people.

I don't think you're leading any 'white' people - naturally, you're reffering to Europeans. This is an absurd claim, even in jest.
Also, it depends on what you mean. Europeans, generally, live far better than Americans. Only a very small part of Americans have actually a lot of money, the rest, would get all jelly at how Western Europeans live.

Am not sure about this. Someone correct me if I'm not making any sense. Have no horsey in racey.  Smile
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#32
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 16, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Dystopia Wrote:
(July 16, 2015 at 7:02 pm)Cephus Wrote: True, but the one thing that conservatism has nothing to do with is religion, but that's the one thing that everyone seems to think characterizes American conservatism. They're just wrong.

Conservatism has a lot to do with religion because it entails preserving your culture, and your culture is inevitably influenced by religion - Even if you're against religion, you're probably very influenced by the predominant one and its ideas. It is inevitable. Laws are based on morality, usually the majority's morality - Morality itself is influenced by religion even if most "devout" atheists don't want to admit it - This isn't to say you need to be religious to be a conservative, but to say conservatism isn't influenced by religion is naive - It has something to do with religion because it promotes tribalism and a continuum of moral values. IMO, anti-theism and conservatism are fundamentally incompatible.

Not necessarily.  Conservatism isn't clinging to any tradition, just because it is a tradition, it is picking and choosing what new ideas to adopt and what new ideas to reject, based on a rational evaluation of those ideas.  It isn't changing, simply for the sake of change.  Clearly, when 20% of atheists are conservative, those people are not utilizing religion in their evaluation of ideas.  When we have something that demonstrably works and the new idea has not been shown to do so, we won't change until you can prove it's an improvement.

By your thinking, everything is religious because religion pervades the lives of the majority of citizens worldwide, regardless of political lean.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
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#33
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 17, 2015 at 3:06 am)Cephus Wrote: Conservatism isn't clinging to any tradition, just because it is a tradition, it is picking and choosing what new ideas to adopt and what new ideas to reject, based on a rational evaluation of those ideas.

In all too many cases you can scrap the "rational" and replace it with "crony".

That isn't meant to say, the other side has necessarily the better ideas.
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#34
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 17, 2015 at 6:06 am)abaris Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 3:06 am)Cephus Wrote: Conservatism isn't clinging to any tradition, just because it is a tradition, it is picking and choosing what new ideas to adopt and what new ideas to reject, based on a rational evaluation of those ideas.

In all too many cases you can scrap the "rational" and replace it with "crony".

That isn't meant to say, the other side has necessarily the better ideas.

That describes the left every bit as much as the right.  Modern American politics is really messed up.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
Bitch at my blog! Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel!
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#35
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 17, 2015 at 3:06 am)Cephus Wrote:
(July 16, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Conservatism has a lot to do with religion because it entails preserving your culture, and your culture is inevitably influenced by religion - Even if you're against religion, you're probably very influenced by the predominant one and its ideas. It is inevitable. Laws are based on morality, usually the majority's morality - Morality itself is influenced by religion even if most "devout" atheists don't want to admit it - This isn't to say you need to be religious to be a conservative, but to say conservatism isn't influenced by religion is naive - It has something to do with religion because it promotes tribalism and a continuum of moral values. IMO, anti-theism and conservatism are fundamentally incompatible.

Not necessarily.  Conservatism isn't clinging to any tradition, just because it is a tradition, it is picking and choosing what new ideas to adopt and what new ideas to reject, based on a rational evaluation of those ideas.  It isn't changing, simply for the sake of change.  Clearly, when 20% of atheists are conservative, those people are not utilizing religion in their evaluation of ideas.  When we have something that demonstrably works and the new idea has not been shown to do so, we won't change until you can prove it's an improvement.

By your thinking, everything is religious because religion pervades the lives of the majority of citizens worldwide, regardless of political lean.

Actually the first sentence describes basically what any political ideology claims to be - You do know that most political ideologies don't entirely reject everything old and praise everything new, right? So what? The fact you are an atheist doesn't mean anything about the influence of religion on your political ideology - You can be an atheist and strongly influenced by Christianity because your culture is itself Christian influenced. Not everything is religious, but you make a good point - Humans have a tendency to be religious about something, whether it's really a true religion or just an idea. We like tribalism. I still don't get where you're coming from - What you're saying is just a reasonable moderate position on politics, it isn't recognizable as conservatism or liberalism, it's just a middle rational ground. Conservatism entails preserving basic principles of society and tradition - Religion is a tradition, so even if you're not personally religious you have to accept that for some people it matters. 

If you are against religion, being a conservative is fundamentally oxymoronic and irrational. The two don't match up. If you were a liberal who thought religion was obsolete, I'd understand, but a conservative (atheist) would probably think that regardless of personal decisions, religion matters and influences culture and therefore people's choices and the majority's leaning should be accepted and preserved. Consevatives usually oppose drastic revolutionary change, right? Hence why they are against communism, right? If so, it is simply stupid to oppose religion because it operates a revolutionary and even anti-tradition view about society, whether you like it or not and despite what this board makes it look like, being against religion is itself an extreme position to take according to social standards.

Quote:That describes the left every bit as much as the right.  Modern American politics is really messed up.
There isn't a left on american politics.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#36
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 17, 2015 at 3:10 pm)Cephus Wrote: That describes the left every bit as much as the right.  Modern American politics is really messed up.

Make that "global" instead of "American" and you're getting there.
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#37
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
I've voted republican many times. I mostly voted for republicans in local elections. My economic views are pretty conservative. My social views aren't. The problem with republicans nationally of late is their over the top Christian values. Scary.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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#38
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
I have voted Republican a handful of times at the local and state level but never in national elections. Until the GOP stops pandering to the Christian Right and the ideological descendants of the Dixiecrats, they will never receive my vote for a U.S. congressional seat or for the presidency. It's a shame, too, because there was a time when there were Republican policy makers who were fiscally conservative and relatively socially progressive, and they didn't feel compelled to demonstrate how stupid they could be just to make their voting base feel more at home. That's the party I would likely side with if they still existed. They don't.

That's not to say that I am happy with the alternatives the Democrats present. It's a lesser of two evils choice for me. I hold my nose and vote. At least the Dems aren't hopelessly retrograde on social issues.
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#39
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 17, 2015 at 4:37 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I've voted republican many times.  I mostly voted for republicans in local elections.  My economic views are pretty conservative.  My social views aren't.  The problem with republicans nationally of late is their over the top Christian values.  Scary.

The problem is, those aren't conservative social views, those are Christian social views.  Conservative social views are more centrist, given the American scale.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
Bitch at my blog! Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel!
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#40
RE: How many Atheist are also vote Republican from time to time?
(July 17, 2015 at 5:57 pm)Cephus Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 4:37 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I've voted republican many times.  I mostly voted for republicans in local elections.  My economic views are pretty conservative.  My social views aren't.  The problem with republicans nationally of late is their over the top Christian values.  Scary.

The problem is, those aren't conservative social views, those are Christian social views.  Conservative social views are more centrist, given the American scale.

Actually strong social conservatism is the equivalent of the predominant religion, otherwise by your standards some liberals would fit the label conservative as well.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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