(April 19, 2017 at 2:13 pm)Khemikal Wrote:(April 19, 2017 at 2:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The problem with capitalism is that it drives individuals, communities, companies and societies to the lowest common denominator. For instance, Obama's climate-change policies and/or directives were a tiny step in the direction needed to save the Planet which The Donald has now completely undone. When you have a Society whereby people put their short-term economic gain over their children or grandchildren ceasing to exist, then you have a Society that is built upon irrational premises, because death is rarely a rational choice for any human being who is at least in decent health. Therefore, capitalism is irrational because it is destructive.I think you have a one sided and not entirely accurate view of capitalism. Capitalism gone wrong, essentially. Well sure, if people align their interests (or have their interests aligned) with shitty things shitty things happen..but if we were chasing the dollar on a bunch of awesome things...wouldn't awesome things happen?
Quote:Socialism, on the other hand, will guarantee every human being, without exception (at least in those countries that have it), a minimal standard of living, hence, life, which will insure that no human being (children, especially) will have to endure any condition of abject poverty. Socialism will allow real climate change practices to be implemented while guaranteeing, without exception, that every human being has a good home with food, water, heat, clothing, and a minimal standard of living beyond that, which I would include of having Internet and cell phone access for all.How, how will it do that? We know how capitalism can be employed to provide some of those things to some people...it's effectiveness is variable from place to place, time to time, and even within those places and times who has what is not uniform...but we can see that it does provide, and how.
How does socialism, in your view, provide those goods and services? I -also- think that all of those things should be available to all people, I think that capitalism is a good way to acquire the resources required to make it happen. People want more than they need. So long as what people want is monetized the proceeds can go, in whatever portion we accept, to what we need. So long as it's privately monetized, the state doesn't have to micromanage each process, it can focus on the shit they don't feel should be privately monetized.
Socialism and capitalism can coexist... but that bad version of capitalism doesn't get a free pass, as socialism tends to impose rules that forbid those bad practices, while providing incentives for "good" practices.
Sure, a Socialist system is still made up of people and it's inevitable that some cracks will show up... but they should be mostly harmless, due to all the checks that would be in place.
And, you know what?... Businesses can still be profitable in a heavily government-regulated environment.
The goods and services nowadays provided by companies would still be provided - if need be, at an extra monetary cost to the consumers.
Those goods and services which are not desirable, would disappear... and with them, some companies and jobs. But others pop up.
As oil becomes more expensive, all alternative energy sources become more profitable - investment flows to them, they become more efficient, and even more profitable... all now operating within the regulations imposed. Either oil companies become energy companies, like Shell is doing (http://www.shell.com/sustainability/envi...hange.html - at least it's pretending), or they go bust.
There are tons of products that have become obsolete and the companies that stuck with producing them became bankrupt. Companies that operate in a state that is clearly against humanity's future well-being should join the obsolete train.