RE: What's the point of philosophy any more?
March 25, 2018 at 10:42 am
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2018 at 10:53 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I doubt that you'll be able to find anyone who thinks that consciousness is "merely information processing" in a way meaningful to the rest of your comments in that regard, or, to put it another way, that a thermometer is our qualitative equal. What that position is trying to communicate to you is not that a thermometer is conscious, for example..but that consciousness could be (and n their opinion is) built out of information processing.
In a similar way, a passenger jet isn't "merely aluminum", and so other things made of aluminum are not necessarily passenger jets....but it would be ludicrous to assert that the passenger jet isn't made of aluminum. The response of "merely aluminum"...at it's strongest, is only a response to the suggestion that a passenger jet might contain some element undetectium in it's construction. In the same way, a human being isn't "merely a computer"..a computer isn't "merely a calculator", a calculator isn't "merely a thermometer" - but fundamental to each of those examples is "merely information processing".
OFC a machine -could- be built that is meaningfully aware of it's environment and responds to it without whatever it is that we call qualia, but that seems moot point since we are no such machine...unless, ofc, we are..and we have mistaken a post-process data summary as somehow experiencing in the moment. Mistaking a summary of what has been for what it's like to be. That summary, for reference..would be beyond the ability of most thermometers even in an utterly basic sense..and so, regardless of whether or not you agree with the IP position...from within the IP position..we can rule out a conscious thermometer while still acknowledging that the difference between us is not or may not be a fundamental difference, but a difference of the application or level of sophistication in which those fundamentals are employed. That it is, put simply "merely information processing"...but that it still is what it is and does what it does, and what it is is not a thermometer, and what it does is beyond the ability of a thermometer.
Conversely, the trouble with undetectium is not only that we are incapable of detecting in ourselves, we cannot detect it's absence in a thermometer. We cannot detect, for example, that we -aren't- the thermometer... programmed to be convinced otherwise. If consciousness can be divorced in a meaningful way from the information processing ability of a system..then the information processing limits of a thermometer are not informative as to the thermometer lacking consciousness.
In a similar way, a passenger jet isn't "merely aluminum", and so other things made of aluminum are not necessarily passenger jets....but it would be ludicrous to assert that the passenger jet isn't made of aluminum. The response of "merely aluminum"...at it's strongest, is only a response to the suggestion that a passenger jet might contain some element undetectium in it's construction. In the same way, a human being isn't "merely a computer"..a computer isn't "merely a calculator", a calculator isn't "merely a thermometer" - but fundamental to each of those examples is "merely information processing".
OFC a machine -could- be built that is meaningfully aware of it's environment and responds to it without whatever it is that we call qualia, but that seems moot point since we are no such machine...unless, ofc, we are..and we have mistaken a post-process data summary as somehow experiencing in the moment. Mistaking a summary of what has been for what it's like to be. That summary, for reference..would be beyond the ability of most thermometers even in an utterly basic sense..and so, regardless of whether or not you agree with the IP position...from within the IP position..we can rule out a conscious thermometer while still acknowledging that the difference between us is not or may not be a fundamental difference, but a difference of the application or level of sophistication in which those fundamentals are employed. That it is, put simply "merely information processing"...but that it still is what it is and does what it does, and what it is is not a thermometer, and what it does is beyond the ability of a thermometer.
Conversely, the trouble with undetectium is not only that we are incapable of detecting in ourselves, we cannot detect it's absence in a thermometer. We cannot detect, for example, that we -aren't- the thermometer... programmed to be convinced otherwise. If consciousness can be divorced in a meaningful way from the information processing ability of a system..then the information processing limits of a thermometer are not informative as to the thermometer lacking consciousness.
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