RE: Morality
September 9, 2011 at 11:53 am
(This post was last modified: September 9, 2011 at 12:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You're imagining wars for self defense when the archaeological record shows that these wars were territorial (and aggressively imperialist), over resources, and sometimes ritual (or for the purpose of taking prisoners). Whenever one is defending, another is attacking. Peaceful warlike societies? I'm not placing any moral judgement on this sort of thing, I have nothing against war in and of itself (I was a soldier), simply stating that the notions of a "better" society by way of matriarchal structure or religion isn't something we have evidence for. These societies appear to be essentially the same as any other (at least in the case of N. Europe).
A simpler way of stating this would be: If women were in charge, human beings would still be in charge. That the societies you're referencing in the Pacific had a different dynamic most likely has more to do with those people specifically, than it has to do with the nature of women as a whole, as it relates to power or governance. My N. European examples are a great way to substantiate that claim. Our current culture seems to be doing a pretty decent job of taking care of their children, if our population growth is any indicator, people are surviving into ever increasing age, and I think most people would characterize ours as a patriarchal culture. How does that square with your ideas of a superior societal structure in matriarchal cultures? Did those cultures achieve greater population growth? Did they live longer?
I'm not trying to claim that whatever benefits those cultures in the Pacific had did not arise from their matriarchal structure. I'm perfectly willing to say that you know more about them than I do. What I am giving are examples of matriarchal societies that went the exact opposite way with it and were as warlike and aggressive as any patriarchal society. It would seem, to me at least, that whether a society is matriarchal or patriarchal is most likely not the reason (or at least is not the only reason) for a society to be more peaceful than their fellows.
(for the record, the romans (just for one example) believed the women of many pagan tribes to as fierce a warrior as any of the men, so I'm not trying to be PC here, just stating that women aren't exactly absent on the battlefields of history or prehistory)
A simpler way of stating this would be: If women were in charge, human beings would still be in charge. That the societies you're referencing in the Pacific had a different dynamic most likely has more to do with those people specifically, than it has to do with the nature of women as a whole, as it relates to power or governance. My N. European examples are a great way to substantiate that claim. Our current culture seems to be doing a pretty decent job of taking care of their children, if our population growth is any indicator, people are surviving into ever increasing age, and I think most people would characterize ours as a patriarchal culture. How does that square with your ideas of a superior societal structure in matriarchal cultures? Did those cultures achieve greater population growth? Did they live longer?
I'm not trying to claim that whatever benefits those cultures in the Pacific had did not arise from their matriarchal structure. I'm perfectly willing to say that you know more about them than I do. What I am giving are examples of matriarchal societies that went the exact opposite way with it and were as warlike and aggressive as any patriarchal society. It would seem, to me at least, that whether a society is matriarchal or patriarchal is most likely not the reason (or at least is not the only reason) for a society to be more peaceful than their fellows.
(for the record, the romans (just for one example) believed the women of many pagan tribes to as fierce a warrior as any of the men, so I'm not trying to be PC here, just stating that women aren't exactly absent on the battlefields of history or prehistory)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
