RE: Atheist Bible Study 1: Genesis
December 29, 2018 at 2:10 pm
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2018 at 3:03 pm by Bucky Ball.)
No takers ?
So here's the background, and what I see when I read about Lot. Sorry ... it's complicated.
The Kingdom of Israel lasted for (only) 120 years. Saul, David and Solomon. Pretty short time, in historical terms.
What happened before the Kingdom, and the facts about the breakup into two kingdoms are important.
In the Levant, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant ) in the ancient Near East, there was a group of Semites who organized themselves on the basis of male kinship bonds, into tribes. There were 13 tribes in ancient Israel. They all had their own territories, except the thirteenth tribe, the Tribe of Levi. The Levites were the priests, and were allowed to live within the territories of the other tribes, as they had a special function, (much as in the US, churches have a tax exempt status, today). The tribes were loosely organized into a "Tribal Confederation". This Tribal Confederation was the first known existence of the nation or political entity of Isra-El, (which means "walks with El).
In a way it could be seen as similar to the precursor of the United States, when the 13 colonies were a confederation of colonies, with a loose organization, or the Confederate States in the South in the US during the Civil War era, with no absolute central authority. The tribal confederation was formed by the first certainly historical "Judge", whose name was Deborah, and she lived about 1200 BCE.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...doms1.html Before that, the tribes of Semites were independent, and there was no notion of an "Israe-El". "El" or it's longer version "Elohim" was seen as the chief god in a council of divine beings in certain parts of the confederation's territories. They got the notion from the Babylonians council of gods, in which El Elyon was the highest god of the council of gods, (plural) which was also called the Elohim.
There was no capital at that time in Israel, and no central authority, there was also no temple at that time, and no central worship site. Each of the tribes had their own shrines to the gods, which included the Yahweh god, and in some, (for sure in Dan, Shiloh, Beth-El, and Jerusalem), his consort or wife, Ashera, was venerated also. Statues of her have been found in Jerusalem, Dan, and Beth-el. The Levites were the priestly class that spanned the tribes, but each worship site had it's own customs, families and traditions. Among the worship centers were locations named Beth-el, Dan, and Shiloh in the North, and Jerusalem in the South. Each of the sites had their own customs, and traditions, and scrolls, and sets of priests. Sets of priests ... very important. Groups of priests.
Don't forget, there was NO Bible at this time, and no common national "story", or national myth. No Genesis, no Exodus, or anything else. The Hebrews were operating at that point without those scrolls. The Bible was written/assembled about 700 years later. So here we have the Hebrews operating during this period, without any central organizing documents or scrolls. No common national story. No Bible.
To counter political threats, discussed below, the tribes decided they needed a central leader, to lead them into battle. Both Judges 18, and 19 start out by stating, "At that time there was no king in Isra-el", emphasizing that the chaos which was happening, (and would be recounted in the chapter to follow) was due to no central leader. To us it sounds like a simple reminder. To the Hebrews of the day, it served as a *special* reminder to them, that the chaos in the story to follow, happened because there was no king yet, ie no central authority to organize them, if they were all attacked. The scroll served as a *justification-reminder* of why they had chosen, (and needed, and continued to need), to have a king.
One of the best known Judges and priests of this period was Samuel and he lived in a Northern city called Shiloh. He was a member of a distinguished priestly family, which thought of themselves as descendants of a figure called Moses. Remember this : Moses was very important to the priests of the North. He was seen as their "ancestor" and their identity derived from him.
Shiloh had a "tabernacle", (actually a "tent" with an arc), which contained some tablets, on which was carved some of the laws of the day. This was actually the first time we know about an "arc", in the Bible. Exodus had not been written yet, thus the "story" of the arc, had not been formed ("remembered" in a literary fashion) yet. The first known arc was already in Shiloh, long before the Bible was written. In the ancient Near East, there were many "arcs".
The motivations for the tribes to decide to anoint a king was a political decision which scholars think happened due to the invasions of the "Sea Peoples" (commonly called "Phoenicians"). Over and over in history, threatened groups find that a strong central authority is a good way to oppose a common threat. Much as a central Federal government was opposed in the early US, there were elements in the tribes which opposed the concept of "kingship", as they thought it opposed the way of life.
One of the prominent members of the opposition to the kingdom, was the prophet Amos. He opposed the kingdom for a number of reasons, and one of them was he knew of the possible abuses of power that one central authority would give the priests and prophets who were centered in the location from which the king would come. He wrote "Fallen is the Virgin Israel, never to rise again, deserted in her own land, with no one to lift her up". He thought a change to a central authority was a threat to the authenticity of what the tribes were all about. Anyway ... it's important to recognize that there is a political background to many, if not all the accounts put into the texts, and there is a REASON the accounts are as they are. In any case the power of the priestly class was used to confer legitimacy on the monarchy, and the priests and prophets had to be kept happy.
So the kingdom was established.
Solomon, had many wives. Many. A figure of 500 is used to count them. It is said that EVERY king and leader in the Levant was his father-in-law. The wives came with a price. Both the named daughters of Lot (he had 2 others, unnamed) were said to be the mothers of the Moabites, and the Ammonites. Two of Solomon's wives were the daughters of the kings of Moab and Ammon. When they arrived in Solomon's capital, they brought priests and altars to their god Chemosch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemosh
Those shrines remained in place for 400 years. 400 years. (!)
They were STILL THERE, and in place, when the Lot story was being compiled/edited/redacted.
They posed an immanent threat to other priest groups and cults.
The Judean priests wanted them gone.
After the Exile, Josiah decided that he would get rid of them. (This is also where the Book of Deuteronomy just happened to be "found", in the temple. Heh heh).
The Judean priests HATED their competition. The de-legitimization of the ancestors of the competition was the literary motivation of the Judean priests to portray the competition as illegitimate.
"King Josiah of Judah 2 Kings
22 Josiah was eight years old when he became king of Judah, and he ruled in Jerusalem for thirty-one years. His mother was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah from the town of Bozkath. 2 Josiah did what was pleasing to the Lord; he followed the example of his ancestor King David, strictly obeying all the laws of God.
The Book of the Law Is Discovered
3 In the eighteenth year of his reign, King Josiah sent the court secretary Shaphan, the son of Azaliah and grandson of Meshullam, to the Temple with the order: 4 “Go to the High Priest Hilkiah and get a report on the amount of money that the priests on duty at the entrance to the Temple have collected from the people. 5 Tell him to give the money to the men who are in charge of the repairs in the Temple. They are to pay 6 the carpenters, the builders, and the masons, and buy the timber and the stones used in the repairs. 7 The men in charge of the work are thoroughly honest, so there is no need to require them to account for the funds.”
8 Shaphan delivered the king's order to Hilkiah, and Hilkiah told him that he had found the book of the Law in the Temple. Hilkiah gave him the book, and Shaphan read it. 9 Then he went back to the king and reported: “Your servants have taken the money that was in the Temple and have handed it over to the men in charge of the repairs.” 10 And then he said, “I have here a book that Hilkiah gave me.” And he read it aloud to the king.
11 When the king heard the book being read, he tore his clothes in dismay, 12 and gave the following order to Hilkiah the priest, to Ahikam son of Shaphan, to Achbor son of Micaiah, to Shaphan, the court secretary, and to Asaiah, the king's attendant: 13 “Go and consult the Lord for me and for all the people of Judah about the teachings of this book. The Lord is angry with us because our ancestors have not done what this book says must be done.”
14 Hilkiah, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to consult a woman named Huldah, a prophet who lived in the newer part of Jerusalem. (Her husband Shallum, the son of Tikvah and grandson of Harhas, was in charge of the Temple robes.) They described to her what had happened, 15 and she told them to go back to the king and give him 16 the following message from the Lord: “I am going to punish Jerusalem and all its people, as written in the book that the king has read. 17 They have rejected me and have offered sacrifices to other gods, and so have stirred up my anger by all they have done. My anger is aroused against Jerusalem, and it will not die down. 18 As for the king himself, this is what I, the Lord God of Israel, say: You listened to what is written in the book, 19 and you repented and humbled yourself before me, tearing your clothes and weeping, when you heard how I threatened to punish Jerusalem and its people. I will make it a terrifying sight, a place whose name people will use as a curse. But I have heard your prayer, 20 and the punishment which I am going to bring on Jerusalem will not come until after your death. I will let you die in peace. The men returned to King Josiah with this message."
There are countless other political/literary references to groups of squabbling / competing groups of priests / political interests ... as we shall see when we get to other stories written into the texts.
So here's the background, and what I see when I read about Lot. Sorry ... it's complicated.
The Kingdom of Israel lasted for (only) 120 years. Saul, David and Solomon. Pretty short time, in historical terms.
What happened before the Kingdom, and the facts about the breakup into two kingdoms are important.
In the Levant, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant ) in the ancient Near East, there was a group of Semites who organized themselves on the basis of male kinship bonds, into tribes. There were 13 tribes in ancient Israel. They all had their own territories, except the thirteenth tribe, the Tribe of Levi. The Levites were the priests, and were allowed to live within the territories of the other tribes, as they had a special function, (much as in the US, churches have a tax exempt status, today). The tribes were loosely organized into a "Tribal Confederation". This Tribal Confederation was the first known existence of the nation or political entity of Isra-El, (which means "walks with El).
In a way it could be seen as similar to the precursor of the United States, when the 13 colonies were a confederation of colonies, with a loose organization, or the Confederate States in the South in the US during the Civil War era, with no absolute central authority. The tribal confederation was formed by the first certainly historical "Judge", whose name was Deborah, and she lived about 1200 BCE.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...doms1.html Before that, the tribes of Semites were independent, and there was no notion of an "Israe-El". "El" or it's longer version "Elohim" was seen as the chief god in a council of divine beings in certain parts of the confederation's territories. They got the notion from the Babylonians council of gods, in which El Elyon was the highest god of the council of gods, (plural) which was also called the Elohim.
There was no capital at that time in Israel, and no central authority, there was also no temple at that time, and no central worship site. Each of the tribes had their own shrines to the gods, which included the Yahweh god, and in some, (for sure in Dan, Shiloh, Beth-El, and Jerusalem), his consort or wife, Ashera, was venerated also. Statues of her have been found in Jerusalem, Dan, and Beth-el. The Levites were the priestly class that spanned the tribes, but each worship site had it's own customs, families and traditions. Among the worship centers were locations named Beth-el, Dan, and Shiloh in the North, and Jerusalem in the South. Each of the sites had their own customs, and traditions, and scrolls, and sets of priests. Sets of priests ... very important. Groups of priests.
Don't forget, there was NO Bible at this time, and no common national "story", or national myth. No Genesis, no Exodus, or anything else. The Hebrews were operating at that point without those scrolls. The Bible was written/assembled about 700 years later. So here we have the Hebrews operating during this period, without any central organizing documents or scrolls. No common national story. No Bible.
To counter political threats, discussed below, the tribes decided they needed a central leader, to lead them into battle. Both Judges 18, and 19 start out by stating, "At that time there was no king in Isra-el", emphasizing that the chaos which was happening, (and would be recounted in the chapter to follow) was due to no central leader. To us it sounds like a simple reminder. To the Hebrews of the day, it served as a *special* reminder to them, that the chaos in the story to follow, happened because there was no king yet, ie no central authority to organize them, if they were all attacked. The scroll served as a *justification-reminder* of why they had chosen, (and needed, and continued to need), to have a king.
One of the best known Judges and priests of this period was Samuel and he lived in a Northern city called Shiloh. He was a member of a distinguished priestly family, which thought of themselves as descendants of a figure called Moses. Remember this : Moses was very important to the priests of the North. He was seen as their "ancestor" and their identity derived from him.
Shiloh had a "tabernacle", (actually a "tent" with an arc), which contained some tablets, on which was carved some of the laws of the day. This was actually the first time we know about an "arc", in the Bible. Exodus had not been written yet, thus the "story" of the arc, had not been formed ("remembered" in a literary fashion) yet. The first known arc was already in Shiloh, long before the Bible was written. In the ancient Near East, there were many "arcs".
The motivations for the tribes to decide to anoint a king was a political decision which scholars think happened due to the invasions of the "Sea Peoples" (commonly called "Phoenicians"). Over and over in history, threatened groups find that a strong central authority is a good way to oppose a common threat. Much as a central Federal government was opposed in the early US, there were elements in the tribes which opposed the concept of "kingship", as they thought it opposed the way of life.
One of the prominent members of the opposition to the kingdom, was the prophet Amos. He opposed the kingdom for a number of reasons, and one of them was he knew of the possible abuses of power that one central authority would give the priests and prophets who were centered in the location from which the king would come. He wrote "Fallen is the Virgin Israel, never to rise again, deserted in her own land, with no one to lift her up". He thought a change to a central authority was a threat to the authenticity of what the tribes were all about. Anyway ... it's important to recognize that there is a political background to many, if not all the accounts put into the texts, and there is a REASON the accounts are as they are. In any case the power of the priestly class was used to confer legitimacy on the monarchy, and the priests and prophets had to be kept happy.
So the kingdom was established.
Solomon, had many wives. Many. A figure of 500 is used to count them. It is said that EVERY king and leader in the Levant was his father-in-law. The wives came with a price. Both the named daughters of Lot (he had 2 others, unnamed) were said to be the mothers of the Moabites, and the Ammonites. Two of Solomon's wives were the daughters of the kings of Moab and Ammon. When they arrived in Solomon's capital, they brought priests and altars to their god Chemosch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemosh
Those shrines remained in place for 400 years. 400 years. (!)
They were STILL THERE, and in place, when the Lot story was being compiled/edited/redacted.
They posed an immanent threat to other priest groups and cults.
The Judean priests wanted them gone.
After the Exile, Josiah decided that he would get rid of them. (This is also where the Book of Deuteronomy just happened to be "found", in the temple. Heh heh).
The Judean priests HATED their competition. The de-legitimization of the ancestors of the competition was the literary motivation of the Judean priests to portray the competition as illegitimate.
"King Josiah of Judah 2 Kings
22 Josiah was eight years old when he became king of Judah, and he ruled in Jerusalem for thirty-one years. His mother was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah from the town of Bozkath. 2 Josiah did what was pleasing to the Lord; he followed the example of his ancestor King David, strictly obeying all the laws of God.
The Book of the Law Is Discovered
3 In the eighteenth year of his reign, King Josiah sent the court secretary Shaphan, the son of Azaliah and grandson of Meshullam, to the Temple with the order: 4 “Go to the High Priest Hilkiah and get a report on the amount of money that the priests on duty at the entrance to the Temple have collected from the people. 5 Tell him to give the money to the men who are in charge of the repairs in the Temple. They are to pay 6 the carpenters, the builders, and the masons, and buy the timber and the stones used in the repairs. 7 The men in charge of the work are thoroughly honest, so there is no need to require them to account for the funds.”
8 Shaphan delivered the king's order to Hilkiah, and Hilkiah told him that he had found the book of the Law in the Temple. Hilkiah gave him the book, and Shaphan read it. 9 Then he went back to the king and reported: “Your servants have taken the money that was in the Temple and have handed it over to the men in charge of the repairs.” 10 And then he said, “I have here a book that Hilkiah gave me.” And he read it aloud to the king.
11 When the king heard the book being read, he tore his clothes in dismay, 12 and gave the following order to Hilkiah the priest, to Ahikam son of Shaphan, to Achbor son of Micaiah, to Shaphan, the court secretary, and to Asaiah, the king's attendant: 13 “Go and consult the Lord for me and for all the people of Judah about the teachings of this book. The Lord is angry with us because our ancestors have not done what this book says must be done.”
14 Hilkiah, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to consult a woman named Huldah, a prophet who lived in the newer part of Jerusalem. (Her husband Shallum, the son of Tikvah and grandson of Harhas, was in charge of the Temple robes.) They described to her what had happened, 15 and she told them to go back to the king and give him 16 the following message from the Lord: “I am going to punish Jerusalem and all its people, as written in the book that the king has read. 17 They have rejected me and have offered sacrifices to other gods, and so have stirred up my anger by all they have done. My anger is aroused against Jerusalem, and it will not die down. 18 As for the king himself, this is what I, the Lord God of Israel, say: You listened to what is written in the book, 19 and you repented and humbled yourself before me, tearing your clothes and weeping, when you heard how I threatened to punish Jerusalem and its people. I will make it a terrifying sight, a place whose name people will use as a curse. But I have heard your prayer, 20 and the punishment which I am going to bring on Jerusalem will not come until after your death. I will let you die in peace. The men returned to King Josiah with this message."
There are countless other political/literary references to groups of squabbling / competing groups of priests / political interests ... as we shall see when we get to other stories written into the texts.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist