Colorado parents of transgender 1st-grader file complaint over restroom ban

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Well, I hate to be the stick in the mud, but gender is not arbitrary by a long shot. Perhaps I am being a stickler for the definition of the word arbitrary, but I think we all know there are differences between male and female. I have to agree with those here who say that is awfully young to be concerned about gender. Do I care overly much how the child came to be confused or sure about his or her gender? Nope. It's mostly irrelevant. What is relevant is that boy means penis and girl means vagina in terms of a bathroom.

Considering that gender is a social construction and is compartmentalizing at a basic form, I'm going to have to disagree that gender is not arbitrated... because the differences between males and females reduce 'gender' down to essentially two basic points: does it grow babies inside of it: woman, and does it infect women with parasites: man.

Basically, if we're going to boil 'gender' as a social understanding of roles and responsibilities down to only implicating differences between the sexes of male and female (and heaven forbid we get an outlier, like XXY)... the differences between gender primarily implicate only reproductive interests, and hence are largely dismissible for any other nonrelated interest (from hunting and foraging to engineering and home-making, utterly irrelevant).

As for 'boy means penis' and 'girl means vagina' for bathroom... it'd sure be a shame to be an intersex individual with partial 'manparts' and 'ladyparts' and being told they are barred from both bathrooms, forced into exclusionary conditions from their peers on a basis they might otherwise not even be aware of otherwise. Further... if boy means penis for terms of bathroom usage, then you've basically stated that I (a rather petite, feminine woman-looking purse-toting lipstick-wearing long-haired person in women's clothing) should use the men's bathroom, on basis of my possession of penis.

Actually, I did just that the other day, since I went out without shaving my face and had a serious case of the runs. Still, in Kroger's poor lighting (hey, it wasn't much hair...), I kind of freaked out a 10 year old boy who opened up the only stall, and he told me that I was in the wrong room.

I see a lot of, "Let her use whatever bathroom she likes. They're just kids. No harm." Well, you could be right, but I do not see a single shit given for the long term. What happens when said kids are not little anymore? Boy, girl, banana, I don't give a shit. I don't want a vagina in my teen nephew's bathroom or a penis in my teen niece's bathroom. I give not a single shit if it is attached to a dress wearer or a pants wearer or a tree. Unisex bathrooms? Seriously. Adults do not even have those. I would be extraordinarily uncomfortable if I had to change a tampon in a unisex bathroom or were alone with a strange man in a bathroom. Now, back to the point of this child, she has a penis and will presumably continue to have one until she is an adult. Since "oh, just let them do it" is not going to work in a teen restroom, the child should be assimilated to reality as soon as possible. She has to use the boy's room or perhaps the nurse's office. C'est la vie. I personally think it would be more harmful to cater to it now and have reality slap her in the face later than to just explain the difficulties to her right away.

See now... that's just sexism. I get it too... but I understand it's a wholly irrational fear. I am unconcerned if my children have vaginas or penises in their bathrooms... I'm much more concerned as to if they're being bullied or made uncomfortable in their bathrooms. What I'd like is a safe environment for my children, penises and vaginas do not make an environment suddenly unsafe (although... attached STIs might).

Given how 'open' her parents seem to be regarding her transsexuality, it's actually quite possible that she'll have her surgery while still considered a minor in her state. SRS could conceivably happen for her as early as 12. 'Oh, just let them do it' works fine in a teen restroom... unless you're willing to suddenly forget that homosexuality exists and is becoming far more socially accepted among teenagers

If you're going to ban her from a bathroom on the basis of her having a penis (god forbid! A penis! That'll surely show when she's standing in front of the bathroom mirror), I'd like to ban her from the other bathroom on the basis of looking like she belongs in the other bathroom, the one where she's banned.

My gods, if only I could have used a nurse's bathroom when I desperately needed to go in high school, and felt completely uncomfortable and terrified in the boy's, but felt also like I might disturb those who go to the girl's. The good old bathroom dilemma of transgendered folk... innit the most wonderful irritation ever? I'd even stand outside both restrooms and patiently wait for everyone to leave either one of them before entering... and once inside go head-down mousemode if another soul entered whilst I was in there. I'd feel embarrassed as hell if I went to the men's, and I'd hope nobody was watching me if I went to the women's. It's wonderful to look the part of the bathroom you'd prefer to be in... not that I'd be allowed in the women's under an understanding that 'boy's restroom equals penis/girl's restroom equals vagina'.

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I would like to take the opportunity to raise a point which is tangentially related to this topic:

The only reason this is an issue is because we have gender-separate restrooms in public places. Though there are reasons for that, they are reasons which would largely be invalidated if all public toilets were enclosed by stalls.

Should public restrooms be integrated?

I believe it would go a long ways towards revealing to women that most men are not out to rape them, and a long ways towards dealing with men feeling weird around women.

You know me... I've never been for all that segregation in the first place. Creates issues where issues shouldn't be. Gotta love culture for that.

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Would you be comfortable if it were TJ or VLB in the bathroom with you, or rather a similar stranger?

Of course she wouldn't be.... didn't you know: lezzies should be segregated from 'all the normal girls'

(Just having a good chuckle at the logical conclusion of your argument, shelly. I'm sure you'd never argue this... although, I've been surprised before).

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Fine, then I'm Jesus Christ, because I say so. And nobody can say I am not!

BOW TO MY DIVINE PRESENCE!

I wasn't aware there was a biological difference between you and Jesus Christ.

Fucking arabs, think they own the planet.

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Note that I said "to me," not "by me." You're actually ridiculing other atheists.

In that other thread I was criticized for saying that terms such as man, woman, male and female were tied to biology. Atheists say the same thing in this thread, and no complaints. Go figure.

Hey, I'm complaining! I use the same set of rules for everybody. I can't help it if the masses of this forum are so hypocritical as to support trans rights and then suggest that there isn't an issue regarding a transsexual's bathroom use It's not like the world is just full of gentlemen who want to make a woman's use of their restroom as painless and rapid as possible -_- Or maybe it is... I'm not in it often enough to tell :S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q

May the gods help you if you manage to break MY RULES

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Ok, so we got stupid athiests just like we got stupid believers!

No kidding... have you met some of these people? It's enough to make me wonder if stupidity just runs deep in the atheist genes.

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I agree about unisex restrooms but the designation of gender soley on what organ you have between your legs seems too simplistic. If you have a kid who feels, acts, and looks (clothed) like a girl, why should we still treat the kid like a boy?

Because we want to ensure they have the maximal level of guilt for not being a boy as can be possibly achieved. And it takes only a minimal effort, to boot!