Colorado parents of transgender 1st-grader file complaint over restroom ban

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I didn't say definitely confused. If you look at my post more carefully, I allowed for either scenario. The bottom line is that bathrooms are based on our genitals. They are not based on gender. If you have a penis, you go to the penis room and vice versa. I do not see it harming the child. Besides, you are arguing for unisex bathrooms in the same breath as arguing against making a girl go with the boys. It's asinine. She does have rights. So do the girls who have vaginas whose bathroom this little girl with a penis would be using. Penis goes to penis room. That is the very reason for the divide.

I would argue that bathrooms are based on adult 'body types', and that their children are expected to follow this culturally. Unless you're using the urinal in the men's: how does having a penis have to do with the bathrooms? Urinals didn't used to exist, ffs... roman society (which featured aqueducts and public toilets) and japan (in some places) got/get by just fine without this nonsensical divide.

I challenge, rather: How does a penis or vagina impact a restroom experience more than a large mole on someone's ass? How can it matter more than the combined experience of clothing choice, hairstyle, body fat distribution, mannerisms, and masculinity/femininity of another person in your bathroom... especially in a case like mine where you would neither see nor suspect the presence of penis?

I'd note... the sign for the men's room assumes a man wearing a suit, the sign for the women's is woman in a dress. Not a penis and a vagina

Besides, this child is six fucking years old. Coddle her now and pretend that she is run-of-the-mill and she is going to have a hell of a shock ahead. Better get her used to the fact that she is has a very important part that biological girls do not.

She's likely already aware that she's different if she's come to this conclusion herself... how is treating her as a woman should be treated somehow 'coddling'? I wouldn't treat a boy particularly differently for having a prosthetic limb (which few of his peers are likely to posses)... and I certainly would never randomly segregate him from his peers, regardless of whether it might be mildly unsettling for them or not.

How about castrated boys? Where are they to be sent: the vagina room is short a hole, and the penis room short a stick... should we go ahead and ban him from both rooms? Oh, and let's publicly out him for not having a dick, best we don't allow there to be a secret absence of penis on the lad.

I was asked earlier if I would feel uncomfortable going to the bathroom with TaraJo or Lilly present. My answer to that is I know Lilly and she is my friend. Of course I would not feel uncomfortable. I piss around guy friends and girl friends. I do not know TaraJo personally. Yes, I might feel slightly uncomfortable knowing there was a secret penis in the restroom. It is nothing against being transgender. It is about having a penis. Assuming I know nothing about this person, I do not want a grown biological male in the same bathroom as my niece. I do not want a grown biological woman in the same bathroom as my nephew either. If this is really that big of a fucking deal, why not make a pre-op trans bathroom and say fuck it? You can't pretend she is biologically female.

How about lesbians, then? Or gay men?

I really cannot understand how a sexual organ being the basis for the discrimination could possibly be for anything other than a sexual reason... what am I missing here, Shell?

You honestly think that giving hormone therapy to a six-year-old who likely cannot even ride a bike without training wheels yet is okay, Tara? She can wear whatever she wants. If her parents opt for any medical treatment, I would want the child taken away from them.

I could ride a bike without training wheels by six... crashed occasionally, but way my parents figured it: gotta fall to learn how to to get up.

Maybe we should also bar depressed children/teens from medical treatment... wouldn't want to mess with their heads, or anything

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In places where I've worked, the men's bathrooms are quite lax on their need for doors, even for the stalls. I would feel weird going in there, wouldn't you? I would feel weird seeing men's penises on a daily basis too. Since schools require gender identification, it's only right that they accommodate all genders including transgender. Irregardless if their transgender is just a 'phase'.

I will forever be an eternal fan of how it seems every toilet can be covered in droplets of piss... at the least they could clean up after themselves, I mean fuck: tissue is RIGHT THERE.

All genders... including the genderqueer*, or ungendered. Transgendered people (as we've been considering the term thus far in this thread) are often wholly applicable to 'boy' and 'girl'.

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Yes, having single bathrooms is a good solution. A great solution, really.

Tara, the only time I ever see bathroom issues come up in the news, it is because someone was raped or assaulted in one. If we make it so it is not suspicious for a man to follow a woman into a public restroom, it could result in problems. Sure, it might not, but I might be biased. A girl was murdered in a restroom at a rest stop near here. The same goes for women following boys into the bathroom. I am not okay with grown women using the bathroom with my nephews. There are a real reasons why they are separate. Ignore them if you want, but they are real. Also, I like being able to go to the bathroom without any men in there. Is that such a crime?

Not to say you're not aware of this... but women assault other women in the women's restroom, and men assault other men in the men's restroom. Rape can occur in each as well.

You're just biased, it's okay... it's a cultural bias that is pretty much expected of just about everyone. Women murder women, men murder men... it's not as though the overwhelming percentage of murders are cross-gender murders, infact... murder of women is generally frowned upon, and most murder is man-man.

Off of pure statistics... you should feel safer bathrooming around total strangers, as it's the people you know who're gonna get you good

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But the transgendered woman would be attracted to men so she wouldn't pose a threat to you.

Might be... transsexuality is separate from sexuality, even if it has the latter in its name. A transgendered individual might have any sexual preference in the world (or even be asexual)... and that interest may do a 180 when they're on HRT, but the two are not one and the same

I know a few lesbian transwomen, and I know a few straight transwomen. I know a few gay transmen, and I know a few straight transmen.

Me? Well... do icicles grow off the floor of a cave?

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The only people who should be concerned about the sexuality of a six year old are catholic priests.

Wouldn't it be just funny if homosexual children were exorcized, or taken to a gay detox camp, or socially barred from using their proper bathroom, regardless of adult behest?

Transsexuality isn't a question of the child's sexuality, amusingly enough, but of their gender.

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Wait a minute, tegh. Since when are all transgender women attracted to men?

I'm not worried about a threat to me. I fucking dare someone to try. It's other people I worry about. All the time, actually.

Ehhh... if I tried to be a threat to you, we'd both probably wind up dead out of it... given that I like to be extremely thorough You're not the only one with OCD, yknow... mine's just not nearly as advanced~

I worry about people if they aren't home by around the time they say they'll be home, I try to not get antsy about people beyond my scope. I keep tabs on occasion, and otherwise just [/i]trust people

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Not all obviously but I'd guess it'd be a majority.

I'd guess you're right, but then... I have only met 'a few' others

But even with let's say lesbian transgendered or bisexual transgendered women, with all the hormone therapy can they even still use their penises sexually? And if they could, would they want to? Because I thought they would rather have vaginas.

Sure, go ahead and use the penis... semen probably won't be coming out of it if you orgasm.

As for 'would they want to'... probably not, but how could I know? I'd have to get inside the head of a rapist... and try as though I might, I can never seem to answer the 'why' adequately. Probably because I'm biased and seek justification of some sort... hehe, to think 'I sometimes become a monster' might work on a young mind.

And would they be any more threatening than natural women lesbians? A lesbian could rape too with a strap on, or even without one for that matter.

You know what the best thing about about the human body? Fingers. If I were going for a show of domination to sate darker sexual interests than I posses... I know what I'd be doing to someone, and it sure don't include any appended floppy device of annoyance and turn-offs.

Not that a submissive bitch like me gets many chances to show off that side of her

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Estrogen may cause growth to slow or stop early in children who take large doses for a long time. Estrogen may also affect the timing and speed of sexual development in children.

And a slew of other side effects http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drugi...de-effects

So, pretty much fuck any parent who thinks gender identity in a prepubescent child is important enough to risk the health of a six-year-old.

My question is 'why would you be giving (significant) HRT to someone who hasn't even started going through puberty yet?'

HRT, if done properly, should lead to the identical (or nearly so) results of natural puberty.

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Yeah, there's not really any way to monitor bathroom usage based on personal sexual preference. I know this though, and go to the bathroom at my own risk. Not once has anyone hit on me in the bathroom so I think we're safe Maybe that's why it's down to anatomy as the determining factor for those making the laws. For all the reasons TaraJo just mentioned, I feel that the one room uni bathroom for those who can't go in either, is a necessity if we're to be civilized about it.

I've been bullied to various (relatively minor) degrees in bathrooms... and somehow I rather doubt that having a one-room unisex bathroom would have done a heck of a lot to stop it, though it would have definitely been an ease for my poor bladder

Still of the opinion that the segregation does little good for us, and assists in perpetuating cultural (gender) stereotypes.

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Hardly matters. They have penises. Penises do not belong in ladies rooms. You can see slightly through the cracks in doors. It's not all about rape or assault, nor have I even slightly made it such.

Sounds like a structural change would do a great deal more good than a ban on who is allowed to use the toilet in question.

I'm not prudish enough to care if I happen across a penis or vagina ever so briefly in an impaired viewport when I have full capacity to avert my eyes if I care to give them the same respect I'd hope they'd give me.

Again, we're not just talking about rape. However, if we were, I would take a lesser risk than the obvious greater risk. Not to mention the fact that, when I talked about rape, I was not talking about transgender individuals raping people. I was talking about unisex bathrooms making it not suspicious for men to follow women into bathrooms and vice versa. Are you purposely moving the goalposts?

Considering that it shouldn't be suspicious in the first place, given that at least some 90% of men are not rapists, and most of those who are wouldn't feel comfortable raping someone they don't know in a public place (though some might enjoy the additional adrenaline) for any large multitude of reasons.

That it is more suspicious for a member of an opposite gender to 'follow' another person into a bathroom than it is for a member of one's own gender to do so is a cultural failing of this era. That it might be considered suspicious at all (without evidence of 'reasonably suspicious activity') is a failure of trust in a paranoid self-centered culture of fear...

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ETA: Now, I do not mind if transgender individuals use the bathroom so much that I would put up a stink about civilized individuals doing it without making it obvious or making some point about it. There is no harm if no one notices. There is harm if your dick is swinging while you are peeing or you are peeing with your ass to the door, which I previously mentioned a child might easily see through unwittingly.
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So potty train her to pee sitting down? I've still never 'grasped' the whole 'pee standing up thing'. Anyway... why would anyone care if a person was peeing standing up or squatting or whatever?

Especially when they are six... why would they care? Hell, at that age... I'd be surprised if they recognized pissing while standing to be so profound as to question the womanhood of their peers.