(May 8, 2013 at 8:43 pm)xdrgnh Wrote: I'm posting in the Atheist section because a lot of people say Deism has more in common with Atheism then it does with Theism. I shall now proceed to make a simple argument for a Deist G-d.
1. Everything in our natural world AKA universe is either matter or space time.
2. Nothing in our universe can be created or destroyed. (I'm aware of quantum fluctuation and the creation of virtual particles but I do not count that as creation because the new matter is not stable and conservation laws are still upheld.)
3. Therefore the universe which is made up of matter and space time cannot of created itself via the laws of physics alone because the laws of physics don't permit such self creation.
4. Therefore the universe was created or a better term caused by something which is not composed of space time or matter.
5. This thing that must be the cause of the universe existence which is not composed of matter or spacetime is commonly called G-d.
Can anyone refute this proof of a first cause or Deism G-d?
If you cannot refute Deism then I don't see why one should call themselves an Atheist.
Your argument is not logically valid.
There is a fallacy of equivocation with regards to the definition of 'created'. P.2 uses 'created' to describe creation ex material. P.3 uses 'created' to describe creation ex nihilo.
There is also a fallacy of composition with regards to what occurs within the universe compared to the existence of the universe itself. You can't extrapolate the behavior within the universe to the universe as a whole.
Your conclusion may be true, but it is not supported by your argument.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
