RE: Refute a first cause which most people would call G-d AKA Deism
May 9, 2013 at 2:18 pm
(This post was last modified: May 9, 2013 at 2:20 pm by Ryantology.)
(May 9, 2013 at 2:09 pm)xdrgnh Wrote: The material world and its phenomena- Nature. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nature
This is everyone definition of nature it's bound to the material world. I shown that the material world alone is not sufficient to explain why it exists. The cause of the existence of the material world must be non material because non material stuff does not need a cause for existence. Only material stuff needs a cause for existence and once material stuff exists it cannot create no new material stuff because of the laws of physics. We have a lot to learn about the natural world still. However we can only learn about the natural world because we are natural beings or material beings. The difference between worshiping the sun and believe in a Deist G-d is that believing the sun to be something that is not natural has no logical necessity. As I've shown it is logically necessary to believe in a non material thing to explain the existence of material matter because science has shown that material cannot be created out of other material. AKA conservation of mass and energy, momentum ect.
I have pointed out that you are making the assumption, which has been discredited so many times over the last few centuries, that we have an understanding of the natural world so complete that we can make the certain determination that we can safely say we know that things exist outside of it. Our laws of physics are strong but they are not complete. Our observational tools are powerful, but by no means as good as they can get. So, when you say 'the natural world and its phenomena', you mean 'as we currently understand them'. I am not so arrogant to think that 'as we currently understand them' = 'as perfect an understanding as we will ever have', but this is precisely what you are doing.
If we really did have total understanding of nature and its processes, then it would be logically necessary to invoke a supernatural phenomena. As we do not have total understanding, to invoke a supernatural phenomena is just burying our heads in the sand.
