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Universe from Nothing?
#26
RE: Universe from Nothing?
(November 6, 2013 at 9:37 pm)Jesus is Lord Wrote: The Universe that we can measure and observe is one ruled by laws and order.

Whilst this may appear to be true there are whole parts of the universe that do not appear to follow rules or laws. There are parts of the universe we can, currently neither measure nor observe - merely deduce. These parts are apparently enormous (dark matter - 70% of the universe, dark energy 30% of the universe) which leaves a mere 1%, give or take, that is everything we can observe.

At the same time the idea that God needed to establish rules and laws for his creation is somewhat at odds with his ability to magic the universe out of nothing. Magic, by definition, cannot follow rules and laws.

This is part of the modern dichotomy of God. In the early days (of the church) there was, to all intents and purposes, no science. Everything was regarded as magic - God did it was enough.

As science progresses and explains more and more of how God did it the magic of God diminishes.

If we ever get to the point of solving exactly how he did it - to the point that we can make out own - does that make us Gods?

Quote:The very smallest elements which we can study have ordered forms, and follow laws which allow us to predict many, though not all behaviors.

Simply not true. Once you get down to sub-electron level things appear to be very chaotic indeed. We still do not know if there is a smalest elemental level (such as in string theory) or an infinite regression of ever decreasing size (the classical model).

Quote:Order itself, law itself cannot exist on its own; it requires something of a higher order to give it. A legal universe requires God for its origin.

Well bearing in mind the above we are somewhat redefining God. Again, why did God need to establish physical rules if he can magic things into existence? Surely he could have them behave as he wants with no discernible rhyme or reason for it?

In summary - if the question is - why is the universe as it is with specific rules, laws and constants and why can we understand those? The answer of God is not an answer.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
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Messages In This Thread
Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 6, 2013 at 9:37 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Polaris - November 6, 2013 at 9:39 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 7, 2013 at 1:04 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by MindForgedManacle - November 7, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Faith No More - November 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Whateverist - November 7, 2013 at 5:16 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Mister Agenda - November 7, 2013 at 6:47 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Faith No More - November 6, 2013 at 9:40 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Darkstar - November 6, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 7, 2013 at 1:22 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 7, 2013 at 3:08 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 7, 2013 at 7:25 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by MindForgedManacle - November 6, 2013 at 9:44 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jackalope - November 6, 2013 at 9:48 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Zazzy - November 6, 2013 at 9:55 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 6, 2013 at 9:55 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 7, 2013 at 12:54 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 7, 2013 at 1:20 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 6, 2013 at 10:04 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Minimalist - November 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 6, 2013 at 11:31 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 7, 2013 at 12:39 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Mystical - November 10, 2013 at 4:45 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Walking Void - November 6, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Minimalist - November 6, 2013 at 11:46 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Bipolar Bob - November 7, 2013 at 12:33 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 8, 2013 at 2:34 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 8, 2013 at 3:53 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by MindForgedManacle - November 8, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 9, 2013 at 10:30 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 9, 2013 at 10:38 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 9, 2013 at 11:15 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 9, 2013 at 11:22 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by MindForgedManacle - November 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Faith No More - November 8, 2013 at 11:25 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Godschild - November 7, 2013 at 1:02 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Psykhronic - November 7, 2013 at 2:10 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 7, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Bipolar Bob - November 7, 2013 at 2:36 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Anomalocaris - November 7, 2013 at 2:42 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by max-greece - November 7, 2013 at 3:10 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 7, 2013 at 7:46 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Doubting Thomas - November 7, 2013 at 10:36 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by popeyespappy - November 7, 2013 at 10:57 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 8, 2013 at 3:46 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by orogenicman - November 7, 2013 at 3:33 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by downbeatplumb - November 7, 2013 at 3:36 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Simon Moon - November 7, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by max-greece - November 8, 2013 at 5:30 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 8, 2013 at 6:35 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 8, 2013 at 6:40 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 8, 2013 at 6:46 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Chas - November 14, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 8, 2013 at 6:44 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by max-greece - November 8, 2013 at 6:44 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by LastPoet - November 8, 2013 at 6:46 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 9, 2013 at 10:40 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 9, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 9, 2013 at 11:11 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 10, 2013 at 12:41 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 11, 2013 at 9:30 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Whateverist - November 11, 2013 at 10:07 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by max-greece - November 10, 2013 at 4:13 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by justin - November 10, 2013 at 7:54 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Angrboda - November 11, 2013 at 1:33 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lemonvariable72 - November 11, 2013 at 1:59 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 11, 2013 at 2:27 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lemonvariable72 - November 11, 2013 at 2:52 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 11, 2013 at 3:07 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lemonvariable72 - November 11, 2013 at 3:38 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Angrboda - November 11, 2013 at 3:03 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 11, 2013 at 6:38 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 11, 2013 at 6:43 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lemonvariable72 - November 11, 2013 at 9:59 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jesus is Lord - November 11, 2013 at 10:53 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 11, 2013 at 10:55 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by MindForgedManacle - November 12, 2013 at 10:38 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 12, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Cinjin - November 13, 2013 at 12:09 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by KichigaiNeko - November 13, 2013 at 6:11 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by The Valkyrie - November 13, 2013 at 12:14 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 13, 2013 at 5:47 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Esquilax - November 13, 2013 at 6:06 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Whateverist - November 13, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 13, 2013 at 6:10 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 13, 2013 at 6:35 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Bob Kelso - November 14, 2013 at 12:00 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 13, 2013 at 7:21 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Owlix - November 14, 2013 at 2:56 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 14, 2013 at 12:37 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Mister Agenda - November 14, 2013 at 12:45 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lion IRC - November 14, 2013 at 9:48 pm
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Lemonvariable72 - November 15, 2013 at 12:31 am
RE: Universe from Nothing? - by Walking Void - November 14, 2013 at 4:57 pm

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