Universe from Nothing?

[Jesus is Lord]

The Universe that we can measure and observe is one ruled by laws and order. The very smallest elements which we can study have ordered forms, and follow laws which allow us to predict many, though not all behaviors.

Order itself, law itself cannot exist on its own; it requires something of a higher order to give it. A legal universe requires God for its origin.

The universe is much too noisy to be called a "legal" universe. You theist seem to forget that this universes is filled with uncertainties and a vast amount of events are unpredictable. The universe is just as much as chaotic as it is ordered.

What would you consider noisy?

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How would a materialist begin, if not with nothing?
If you begin with any other concept, wouldn't you of necessity invoke a descriptive / supportive framework - such as, say, quantum physics?
But if a materialist allowed a conceptual framework at or before the start of anything, or, from "eternity" then he would need to explain the existence of this framework, which is, of itself, a conceptual entity - a supernatural thing.
Materialism, by definition, cannot allow anything supernatural.

Ooh, I'm a materialist (physicalist) and a naturalist, so perhaps I can adequately answer without straw manning as you did.

Firstly, why would a materialist begin with 'nothingness'?

Secondly, as I'm a little familiar with the philosophy of time, your assertion that a framework prior to time is conceptual is nonsense. As an adherent to the B-theory of time (a static view of time's nature), I think the universe existed in a tenseless state of at least 4 dimensions before time "began". This view has the huge benefit of having support from Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics; modern physics in general, really. And this view of time fits in well with physicalism and metaphysical naturalism, as far as I can tell.

If you think about it, the invisible laws which uphold the observable universe are far more astounding than the universe itself. The Universe is like a program that runs inside of an operating system. There is an invisible operating system which guides all observable particle behavior, directs all forces. What you see is what is running. What you don't see is the framework that makes all the behavior you can observe, possible.

Saying the universe has laws in the sense that you mean it is nonsensical. It's like thinking of biological evolution as teleological: it's backwards and anthropocentric.

Anthropocentrism is not escapable. Athiests and theists alike view the world through filters. The criticism of anthropocentrism is like one fish calling another fish wet. The question is - how does a universe which all physicists would agree is deeply ordered, begin from nothing? If it did not begin from nothing, explain what preceeded it without invoking anything supernatural.

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The Universe that we can measure and observe is one ruled by laws and order. The very smallest elements which we can study have ordered forms, and follow laws which allow us to predict many, though not all behaviors.

Order itself, law itself cannot exist on its own; it requires something of a higher order to give it. A legal universe requires God for its origin.

The laws of the universe are descriptive, not proscriptive.



Next....

Not sure why you use the word "proscriptive." Did you mean, "prescriptive?"

The Laws of the universe give us tremendous predictive capability, because the universe contains so much deep order. Other posts insist that there really is not that much order to the universe, but that is a fairly thin assertion. How did a Universe come from nothing? If not nothing - then what? Explain the rise of the Universe without implying a supernatural agent of some kind.