A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?

[Ferrocyanide]

But why is your only solution to throw people into a lake with element 16? What would that accomplish?

First of all, it is not my solution, the doctrine of hell is common in all Abrahamic religions at least. Secondly, the obvious purpose of hell is to accomplish divine justice. Read again, divine justice, not your definition of justice, or that of any finite being with limited cognition. 

Do you deny that you have limited cognition? (Y/N)
Do you think you can apprehend justice and morality better than all-knowing being? (Y/N)

All this is obvious, so I am not going to spell it out again.

There isn’t anything about hell in judaism. The tanakh does not talk much about it but it does give clues that the jews were flat earthers and that they believed that hell was below them and that heaven was above them.

For example:
Deuteronomy 32:22 KING JAMES VERSION
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

^^^^^This suggests to us that jews believe that hell is below the surface. Jews are flat earthers. They are confusing high temperature with fire.



Psalms 86:13 KING JAMES VERSION
For great [is] thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

^^^^^This gives us a vague clue that there is a proportionality: lower = worst layers


Psalms 88:6 KING JAMES VERSION
Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. {88:7} Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted [me] with all thy waves. Selah.

^^^^^This gives us a vague clue that there is a proportionality: lower = worst layers



Psalms 139:15 KING JAMES VERSION
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

^^^^^Again, the same thing is repeated.


You can also read
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article...tradition/


Christianity is a merger religion. It fuses judaism, greek religion, roman religion, babylonian, mythraism and perhaps more.
It is said that the idea of hell is mostly inspired by the greek religion.
It is possible that those ideas have influenced rabbis from other sects.


Anyway, since you have joined the religion of Islam, you agree with the jewish god, right?
But why is your only solution to throw people into a lake with element 16? What would that accomplish?

Do you deny that you have limited cognition? (Y/N)
Do you think you can apprehend justice and morality better than all-knowing being? (Y/N)

All this is obvious, so I am not going to spell it out again.

I think that it is important that I say this again:
Just because a guy has a sticker on his jacket that says “Hello, I am a god.” doesn’t mean that he is exactly who you think he is. It doesn’t mean that you should abandon your reasoning, your morals and just blindly follow him.

Also, I have a question for you. If this jewish god made me a god, would you be ok with whatever I decide?

This kind of argument pops up often from theist. This idea that the jewish god is perfect therefore, we should not question his decision to torture people forever in hell.
We aren’t talking about rocket science, as the old saying goes.

So, I’ll ask you this question. If I tell this jewish god that he is ugly, would he throw me in hell?

Why would I sit with a criminal or a mass murderer to know his issues? unless you're referring to some medical case where the perpetrator is mentally unstable and can't be held accountable, I don't know what you're talking about.

I’m not sure. I sense that you don’t have much desire to talk about these issues and you brought in “a mass murderer” into the conversation. Your line felt more like a hit and run operation.
Try not to build massive wall.
I don’t know about your mass murderer example.
What I am talking about is stuff that has been established for decades. Prison in the western world is regarded more of a rehab center rather than a place of torture or complete isolation.

I don’t know about mass murderers but in the case of various criminals, they are put in jail and there are psychologists available to them to reform them. Sweden has placed a lot of effort into their program.


Swedish Prison vs United States Prison - How Do They Actually Compare?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzOfjX0VWCk
By The infographics Show
Length = 9:08

This one is about someone who is in a maximum security prison
How Norway's Prisons Are Different From America's | NowThis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNpehw-Yjvs
By NowThis News
Length = 9:11

This video is about a man who is serving a life sentence for murder.
He is studying at the university level. He seems to be interested in technology and marketing.
Prisoners In Finland Live In Open Prisons Where They Learn Tech Skills | On The Ground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l554kV12Wuo
By Insider News
Length = 9:11



Are these concepts that you are alright with?
What would you do different in your prison system?

You're so horribly confused here. God's existence and the historicity of Muhammad are two separate issues. And your stance on either of these issues is not clear so far.

I wrote:
Such stories about Jesus and Mohamed and Boy George are wonderful works of science-fiction.

So, for example, when the Bible says that Jesus is walking on sea until he reaches a boat in the middle of the sea, I don’t buy it.
When it says that the jewish god impregnated Mary magically, I don’t buy it.
In the case of Mohamed, I think the claim is that he went into a cave and an alien or angel or the jewish god told him to recite and he magically was reciting the Koran, I don’t buy it.
I think it is also claimed that Mohamed road a winged horse and cracked the Moon into 2, I don’t buy it.

So, I am not talking about existence of these guys. Probably there was a Jesus. Probably there were a bunch of messiahs trying to save Israel from the “evil” overlords (Romans).
Political problems do occur. It is not out of the ordinary. I don’t have trouble believing that Rome was ruling over Israel.

I simply reject the extraordinary claims.

You asked:
Do you think God can't proved by empirical science?
I don’t know what your abilities are. What experiment are you planing on doing?

You asked:
Do you think that we can't prove anything that isn't observable?
Proof is something done in mathematics.
When it comes to the difficult to observe cases, in science, we extrapolate from what we already know.
For example, nobody has directly observed the Earth’s core. Some random people claim that it is hollow inside.
Scientist think that is silly. It makes sense that it is not hollow and that higher density materials sunk to the core. The Earth’s gravitational field indicates to us that the average density of Earth is about 5 g/cm3. This suggests that the core density is above 7 g/cm3, which suggests that the core might be iron. This makes sense sence iron is manufactured en mass inside stars.
In fact, quite a lot of asteroids contain large amounts of iron and lesser amounts of nickel.

You asked:
Do you think that Muhammad was faking prophecy?
I think that Mohamed lived in the region and I think christianity was spreading so, he had heard about that religion from either someone in his community as he was growing up or he was already at the adult stage.
I don’t know what prophecy you are talking about but from what I have seen in the Bible, all the prophecies are vagueries. In some cases, they did not work out.

Yes, precisely that. And it's obvious isn't it. Without a creator, there is no guarantee that our brain apprehends reality in any reliable way. The argument is straightforward: if the evolutionary process is not the intention of a creator to bring about brains capable of apprehending reality, then there is no good reason for us to assume our brains are reliable.

You pointed out to our various scientific accomplishments as evidence: this is pragmatism. The reliability of our brains shouldn't be contingent upon whether our mathematical models are correct. And needless to say that our science was mostly wrong until very recently.

If there is a god, then how can we know that his brain is working correctly?
You still haven’t provided a reasonable reason.
You just flat out claim “Hey, it is obvious! He is the creator!”

I already answered but here it is again:
To me, it looks like it is working fine.
I write programs. They work as I wish. I am not claiming to be the best programmer in the world and it takes some time debugging but eventually, I output a functional product.
Calculators, TVs, VHS players, the space shuttle are all products of science. Do they work well or not?

They work just fine.

Scientific concepts, mathematical models seem to work fine. Once in a while, we are able to make predictions that turn out to match what we find in nature.

So, it looks like science is doing well.

So, where is the problem?

You believe in the jewish god and you believe that this god’s brain works correctly and that he designed your brain to work correctly.
Great. So, how do you know that the jewish god’s brain is working correctly?

Because only elements of nature have capabilities, life forms have capabilities for example. But it doesn't follow that nature as a whole has capabilities.

OK, but I’m still not sure what you are talking about. What part of nature are you talking about and what capability is it lacking?

You won't be able to provide some internal inconsistency in the doctrine of heaven or hell. You already made gratuitous arguments like saying people will feel bored in heaven or won't have anything to do after some amount of years etc. This is not a serious discussion of these doctrines.

The issue is not that there are internal inconsistency.
I think that all theists wish to go to heaven or be with god or be with their loved ones or be gods. The belief varies quiet a bit.
There is always stuff to do. What I am saying is that the people who wrote these stories simply can’t give much of a description of heaven, since even if they tried, the reader can ask, “Well after doing that, what do we do?”
Giving a description of hell is the easy part. There are lakes of element 16 and you get tortured forever and burned. It’s not very creative and it need not be. The goal has been achieved since the goal is to scare people. It is a psychological tool to coerce people to be good. Not many people ask “Well, what else do I get to do in hell?”

For my comment about heaven being boring after a while, christians have told me “Nah, you won’t get bored.”
You told me the same thing. Thanks for trying. Let me know when your imagination starts working.
It’s your heaven. It is your goal to get there. Are you telling me you made no plans for your vacation?

You say you are not making argument, and immediately after that you write a premise (A being that doesn't immediately prevent a crime is immoral) and a conclusion.

And I already told you why your premise is wrong: it negates free will. You may say why won't God create a world where there is free will and no evil, and the answer would be : we know from literature that this world is not a possible world. And omnipotence doesn't entail creating a logically impossible world.

That’s correct. I am not making an argument. I am just making an observation.
You are making looking at the same thing and your claim is that god is moral.

Stopping crime does not interfere with free will. If god is omniscient, then he already knows the future.
If you are claiming he is not omniscient, then he can make a duplicate world where people are zombies (or if you like, we can call them simulations) and the only real person is that person in question.
So, any person he kills, tortures, burns wold not have real consequences.

You're confused again. The discussion is not about me, lol. You're here arguing, a being with finite knowledge, that an all-knowing God has no reason not to prevent crime immediately. This is a negative assertion. Good luck proving a negative assertion.

Your inability to substantiate that claim beyond simple moral condemnation is enough to reject your argument from evil.

It is about you. It is your religion. You have convinced yourself that that religion is true, right.
So, defend your religion.
You are claiming the jewish god is all knowing. How do you know?

You say:
all-knowing God has no reason not to prevent crime immediately.

Go ahead and tell me the reason.
It doesn’t interfere with free will at all.
So, first choose. Is the jewish god omniscient or not. Let’s start with that and we’ll continue the discussion.

It's not about gender bias, Islam doesn't acknowledge women joining the military in the first place.

Islam is founded in the 7 th century and carries with it the old gender bias.
Back then, women were not in the military.
So, it sounds like Mohamed or someone around that period decided that when you kill your enemy’s army, take the woman but don’t execute them.

But time marches on. The western world has woman in the armies.
The question is, would it be a good idea to send an army of woman if we are at war with an islamic country? Perhaps we can wipe out islam’s army pretty quickly that way.

And it's clear that the Russian court system can't do anything about Putin's aggression. Maybe NATO countries are justified in not intervening to avoid a global war, but it's clear that there is something inherently wrong in the justice system that allowed for the invasion of Ukraine to happen.

Yes, it is called corruption. Some people have a lot of power. That’s the real world. It is imperfect.

Your initial comment was:
You seem to put the modern criminal system on a pedestal. Maybe you forget its complete inability to punish heads of state or anyone with some influence, even if they happen to be war criminals. Can your modern court system do anything to Putin as he is killing children right now?
Islam forbids killing women even if they are enemy combatants, does your modern court system do that?

^^^^^Well, nobody said that the world is a perfect place, sweetheart.

I think you would make a great military commander. So, go ahead and order your men to not fire back at women while some foreign army has an army of women remotely pressing a button and sending large number of missiles at you from 2000 km away.
That’s the future of combat: Drones, self-guided missiles, tanks with AI, jet planes with AI, dropping bombs from space and plenty more.