Atheist Bible Study 1: Genesis

[Drich]

Abram in Egypt
Genesis 12:10-20

Abram and his group move to Egypt to settle there for a while, because of a severe famine in Canaan. Now his wife Sarai was apparently a very beautiful woman ... so beautiful that the men of Egypt would kill her husband just to have her. So Abram, being the shrewd man that he is, suggests to his wife to pretend that she is his sister instead. That way, he won't be harmed by the Egyptians, and they'll treat him well.

Actually the passage states abraham knows that the egyptians will kill him if they know sara to be his wife and take her from her family. The idea being if she is his sister they will/can bluff a crazy high dowelery/bridal cost. but the king get's involved who can afford to pay this crazy cost with whatever they seek. which lands them into trouble.

When in Egypt, the Pharaoh hears of this beautiful woman called Sarai and takes a hold of her. He is so pleased with her that he rewards her "brother" Abram with plentiful livestock and servants. Not sure about Sarai, but Abram seemed to be having a field day there, despite being such a cuckold.

again the idea was to give people the idea that she was obtainable but only to the wealthy which the king had no problems meeting.
the idea wasn't to trade but to put such a high price on her no one would pay, but appearently she was a megan fox type and the king did not care how much it cost.

But the LORD would have nothing of this. So he inflicts the Pharaoh and his household with severe diseases. Then Pharaoh, realizing the truth, summons Abram and has a go at him for letting a king like him suffer. Then Pharaoh commands his men to send Abram away peacefully, with his wife Sarai and all their belongings.

because he knew more was to come if abraham was treated badly.

This, to me, is the first really interesting account of Abram's life in Genesis. It actually resembles the story of Joseph combined with the story of the Exodus in many ways, which makes me think this story was used as a template for the more elaborate and later Joseph and Exodus stories.

the only paralell is that the jews leave with thier belongings. the exodus had the jews take the belongings of the egyptians as well as their own, but only after terrible hardships on the egyptians

We see mention of a famine in Canaan, and the move to Egypt as a result. We also see Pharaoh's good treatment of the people of God.

well... no. remember pharaoh's relationship with the israelites come only through their brother 1/2 joseph (they were born from leah while joseph was born of rachel. and after he was sold into slavery joseph came to work at the #2 guy in egypt where he was accused of trying to rape the wife of this guy and was thrown into prison, and stayed there for years till pharaoh had dreams that haunted him that only joseph could decipher, which lead to preparing egypt for a famine in egypt and every where else... This preparation make pharaoh 100x more wealthy than he was! He even expanded the kingdom as people traded their family lands for grain to eat. Then Joseph became the #2 guy. he was so trusted (and still a slave) he ran the kingdom.. So all of the kindness you attribute to the pharaoh was actually their brother joseph. The pharaoh was charging people their lands and holdings for enough to keep them alive. (his own people governor's and the like)

. We then see divine inflictions thrown upon the Pharaoh and his people. We finally see the Pharaoh yield to the point of sending the enslaved away peacefully and with all the things they had acquired while in Egypt. All of this we see later in the "remake versions" of this story.

this happens several hundred years after the joseph story.

Now to briefly comment on the character of Abram in this story. This is obviously being said from a very modern perspective, but I personally think Abram was a bit of a douche for letting his wife possibly suffer like this for his own safety, and it's one of the few passages that show how lacking he was in empathy towards his wife. But at the same time, I can still somewhat understand why he felt this was the best way to go about doing things, since he suspected that the Egyptians would've killed him if they thought he was Sarai's husband.

You are right he was a douche and the bible points that out later saying he should have trusted God to deliver him..

Either way, we see the LORD teaches Pharaoh a lesson, showing him who's really God. And to the ancient Israelites, this would've been one illustration among many of how powerful and mighty God is compared to other men and gods, and thereby a reminder that only the LORD was worthy of worship.

while getting abraham started in the goat business..

Of course, what God did there was cruel and completely unwarranted.

so the F what?!?!? being cruel to a thief or a cut throat is like being rude to a member of isis.. No one ruled in that day without putting alot of people in the ground!

All he had to do was tell Pharaoh to give Sarai back to Abram without having to inflict diseases on him and his family, and the Pharaoh would've been intimidated enough to obey. That, or be a better guide to Abram and actually discourage him from putting his wife in this situation and reminding him that he's there to take care of them while in Egypt. But that's just me.

what makes you think he didn't?

Men like that in a position of authority don't generally just roll over. that have to be shown who the boss is.

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Glob.. it's like cut and paste/no thought commentary!

The premise of the myth is nonsense. If she was (said to be) his sister, she would have been available for marriage. 

no shite! that was the whole point. to make her avaible but at the same time so expensive no one could touch her.. However they did not count on her catching the eye of the king! He met whatever crazy price they cold come up with!!

Camels were not domesticated for common use, until, at the earliest 1000 BCE. (They do appear on temple and other architecture as royal symbols, before that).

which is consistent with the story as camels were gifts from pharoah. Ie not common use animals.

The height of the migratory caravans occurred around 700-750 BCE.

as a means of trade and travel. however it was common practice to move your tribe when resources dwindled from the beginning of time. this is all very basic hunter gather stufff.

One can assume that any "migrations" (such as this one) are mythological.

what a moron:
ever hear of 'native americans' dummy?
do you know how 'science' says they got here?
it's called a land bridge they crossed supposedly 25,000 years ago in a mass migration due to dwindling resources supposedly brough on by the ice age.

Now if people 25,000 years ago knew to follow the food out of a dying area, what makes you think this same idea was so abstract that abraham could not have heard there was food in egypt 2000 bce and simply go there to see if they could set up camp?

There is no evidence (archaeological or historical) for anyone from the period of the "patriarchs".

patriarchs is a term referring to one's ancestors dummy. here they refer to those who came before abraham.

We know the history of pre-kingdom Israel, (the tribal confederation period), its centers of worship, its gods, and some of its leaders.
The first historical leader who is unquestioned, historically, is Deborah, the Judge.

glob...
deborah comes several hundred years AFTER the exodus, if this is as far as you can go back then perhaps it would be better if you saved it for a time when she comes up.

It is like me having a discussion about pre colonial leadership in American colonies and you tell us you knew someone in obama's cabinet... Better yet it's like you did a key word search but don't know enough to exclude this name as it is not even in 1000 years of what is being discussed. but hey it was spelled right which still makes you "smart" with your peers..