post 3 Chad32 “Christians will say he created everything, and yet outer space and a globe of water seemed to exist before the story even started. I'm not sure how you can have light without the sun. And the light can't be god, unless the verse means he turned himself into light, whereas he wasn't light beforehand. It mentions the sun and moon will be lesser and greater lights, but the first light is just an enigma.”
Re post 3 Perhaps some thoughts of a literalist Bible-believer will help to clarify. First, God is, & He is the God who created. Creation is not something that observational science has a tremendous amount to say in regard to this one-time, unique event.
As for the light source in vs 3 - I agree it is an unknown as to what exactly it was. Could’ve it been from God - maybe. God does not need to turn Himself into light - 1 John 1:5 “This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.”
Another small reality - a lightning bolt gives off light. A firefly & glow worm give off light. So, there can be light without the sun. Wouldn’t it be great is science could learn how to make “cold” light?
post 4 Minimalist “I always use the KJV. Piss-poor though it is all the morons swear by it!”
Personally, I use the NAS version. Many use the NIV. Some prefer the Living Translation. Others find the KJV good. I do very much like some of the KJV translations of the psalms. They are all but translations.
post 6 BrianSoddingBoru4 “why would the ineffable, all-powerful omnimax being require a day of rest? What sort of rest did he take? Was he doing and discarding designs for the Garden, deciding how many noses Adam should have, or was God just having a kip? No one seems to know.”
Quite a silly question - but it was asked. Why does all the world have the week? This is not a trick question. God could’ve created in whatever time span He felt like. Six days of work & one of rest - repeat until death. After the creation of man God finished His creation activities. Good luck finding some mysterious place where matter just pops into existence. Perhaps you should petition the ACLU, etc to have the week done away with as it is of a distinctive RELIGIOUS origin & has no place in “modern” society.
post 8 Belaqua “Augustine, and Aquinas also thought that a literalist reading was untenable. Not to mention all the non-literalist Christians there are today.”
Augustine, and Aquinas, though valuable contributors to theology, are just fallible humans. All of mankind is quite fallible. Since the dawwinian myth of evolution gained traction there have been many who been led astray by this fairy-tale. I daresay that if darwin tried to have his seminal works published today he would be hard-pressed to find a publisher.
If you have the time & inclination - where did you find what you say Augustine, and Aquinas believed?
post 11 vulcanlogician “I think this about sums it up.”
Yes, nature red in tooth & claw. But, you were too gentle on your fellow atheists. A picture of the emaciated bodies of the holocaust victims or some other likewisee horrific rendering of mans inhumanity would’ve been so much better.
We have these two Scriptures - the first before sin the second after sin. Before sin- nature NOT red in tooth & claw; after sin, nature red in tooth & claw. This is not rocket science.
Genesis 1:29, 30 “Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.”
Gen 9:3 “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.”
post 14 vulcanlogician “ the myth-value of stories like Adam and Eve. In some respects, the story might even be saying something pertinent about our predicament as moral agents:”
Were we (mankind in Adam & Eve) created as moral agents. Yes, there was but one prohibition given them. They had choice. As it is, they filed miserably - they choose disobedience. The wonder of God is in that He has made a way unto reconciliation - repentance unto the Lordship of Christ. The Bible gives us the problem, sin. It gives us the remedy, repent. It explains what the problem is; why it is; what has happened because of it; & what to do because of it.
post 15 Minimalist “If "adam and eve" are not taken literally then who the fuck needs jesus to save mankind from their "sin?" I think the literalists are shitheads but the fact is they are the ones who understand the story. It's the allegorists who do not have a leg to stand on.”
Absolutely true that Genesis is meant to be taken literally & is the foundation for why Christ had to come & die.
From a previous post - Here is something that truly amazes - the consistency of the Bible from cover to cover. There are 66 books & 40 authors. These authors range from kings to tax collectors & fisherman. Yet, the message remains focused on this - man is a sinner who will reap eternity in one of two places - either separated from God or eternity in fellowship with God & communion with others. Scripture is not ambagious. There is also this that is most often overlooked about the Bible. It is filled with prophecy - no other religious work can say this.
Is the Bible true in everything it affirms whether it be science, health & medical issues, relationships, history? I say yes. Scripture offers abundant evidences that just wait to be weighed in the scales of reason & logic.
post 17 wyzas “why would the ineffable, all-powerful omnimax being require a day of rest?” “And now we have the cosmic microwave background radiation that you can still hear today.”
The day of rest is answered above in my reply to post 6
As for the “cosmic microwave background radiation” this does pose quite a dilemma for evolutionists. The “big-bang” says creation came into being all at once at a specific time. Many are the religious implications but now is not the time for this.
post 18 “rather a god with physical form who modeled humans in his own image. Later interpreters would, of course, spiritualize this to mean God made humans in his spiritual image, giving them the capacity to think and know things, to reflect, to have morals, and all that.”
I have no idea why you are propounding such folly? God is spirit. Man is a corporal being with a spirit. Where does the Bible teach that God is anything but spirit? When doing a study on a book of the Bible it is only proper to know what the BIBLE teaches.
Re post 3 Perhaps some thoughts of a literalist Bible-believer will help to clarify. First, God is, & He is the God who created. Creation is not something that observational science has a tremendous amount to say in regard to this one-time, unique event.
As for the light source in vs 3 - I agree it is an unknown as to what exactly it was. Could’ve it been from God - maybe. God does not need to turn Himself into light - 1 John 1:5 “This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.”
Another small reality - a lightning bolt gives off light. A firefly & glow worm give off light. So, there can be light without the sun. Wouldn’t it be great is science could learn how to make “cold” light?
post 4 Minimalist “I always use the KJV. Piss-poor though it is all the morons swear by it!”
Personally, I use the NAS version. Many use the NIV. Some prefer the Living Translation. Others find the KJV good. I do very much like some of the KJV translations of the psalms. They are all but translations.
post 6 BrianSoddingBoru4 “why would the ineffable, all-powerful omnimax being require a day of rest? What sort of rest did he take? Was he doing and discarding designs for the Garden, deciding how many noses Adam should have, or was God just having a kip? No one seems to know.”
Quite a silly question - but it was asked. Why does all the world have the week? This is not a trick question. God could’ve created in whatever time span He felt like. Six days of work & one of rest - repeat until death. After the creation of man God finished His creation activities. Good luck finding some mysterious place where matter just pops into existence. Perhaps you should petition the ACLU, etc to have the week done away with as it is of a distinctive RELIGIOUS origin & has no place in “modern” society.
post 8 Belaqua “Augustine, and Aquinas also thought that a literalist reading was untenable. Not to mention all the non-literalist Christians there are today.”
Augustine, and Aquinas, though valuable contributors to theology, are just fallible humans. All of mankind is quite fallible. Since the dawwinian myth of evolution gained traction there have been many who been led astray by this fairy-tale. I daresay that if darwin tried to have his seminal works published today he would be hard-pressed to find a publisher.
If you have the time & inclination - where did you find what you say Augustine, and Aquinas believed?
post 11 vulcanlogician “I think this about sums it up.”
Yes, nature red in tooth & claw. But, you were too gentle on your fellow atheists. A picture of the emaciated bodies of the holocaust victims or some other likewisee horrific rendering of mans inhumanity would’ve been so much better.
We have these two Scriptures - the first before sin the second after sin. Before sin- nature NOT red in tooth & claw; after sin, nature red in tooth & claw. This is not rocket science.
Genesis 1:29, 30 “Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.”
Gen 9:3 “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.”
post 14 vulcanlogician “ the myth-value of stories like Adam and Eve. In some respects, the story might even be saying something pertinent about our predicament as moral agents:”
Were we (mankind in Adam & Eve) created as moral agents. Yes, there was but one prohibition given them. They had choice. As it is, they filed miserably - they choose disobedience. The wonder of God is in that He has made a way unto reconciliation - repentance unto the Lordship of Christ. The Bible gives us the problem, sin. It gives us the remedy, repent. It explains what the problem is; why it is; what has happened because of it; & what to do because of it.
post 15 Minimalist “If "adam and eve" are not taken literally then who the fuck needs jesus to save mankind from their "sin?" I think the literalists are shitheads but the fact is they are the ones who understand the story. It's the allegorists who do not have a leg to stand on.”
Absolutely true that Genesis is meant to be taken literally & is the foundation for why Christ had to come & die.
From a previous post - Here is something that truly amazes - the consistency of the Bible from cover to cover. There are 66 books & 40 authors. These authors range from kings to tax collectors & fisherman. Yet, the message remains focused on this - man is a sinner who will reap eternity in one of two places - either separated from God or eternity in fellowship with God & communion with others. Scripture is not ambagious. There is also this that is most often overlooked about the Bible. It is filled with prophecy - no other religious work can say this.
Is the Bible true in everything it affirms whether it be science, health & medical issues, relationships, history? I say yes. Scripture offers abundant evidences that just wait to be weighed in the scales of reason & logic.
post 17 wyzas “why would the ineffable, all-powerful omnimax being require a day of rest?” “And now we have the cosmic microwave background radiation that you can still hear today.”
The day of rest is answered above in my reply to post 6
As for the “cosmic microwave background radiation” this does pose quite a dilemma for evolutionists. The “big-bang” says creation came into being all at once at a specific time. Many are the religious implications but now is not the time for this.
post 18 “rather a god with physical form who modeled humans in his own image. Later interpreters would, of course, spiritualize this to mean God made humans in his spiritual image, giving them the capacity to think and know things, to reflect, to have morals, and all that.”
I have no idea why you are propounding such folly? God is spirit. Man is a corporal being with a spirit. Where does the Bible teach that God is anything but spirit? When doing a study on a book of the Bible it is only proper to know what the BIBLE teaches.
