RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 18, 2022 at 2:18 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2022 at 2:30 pm by R00tKiT.)
(March 18, 2022 at 11:40 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you try to hit someone in the face, and you're stopped from hitting someone in the face, in what way is this a world where your free will to swing for a face is impossible? You're excusing your gods incompetence by claiming this is impossible..but we know it isn't..because even if your god is incompetent in this regard, we aren't. Long story short - if you think this is a good objection..as you just said it was...then you have a problem - as it makes the existence of god entirely immaterial. The whole bit could be true, and it wouldn't matter.
I suspect that if you showed your work on the next claim, that naturalism and evolutionary theory can't both be true - if our brains are reliable - it will be of similar caliber.
You sound a bit inflexible about the whole matter. I explicitly referred the people asking about this to Plantinga's notion of transworld depravity, which you don't seem to have read about. To put it more forcefully, you can't refute theism merely by a few thought experiments about me hitting someone in the face. You and I know it's subtler than that.
(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Is stealing a finite crime yes/no?
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment Yes/no?
Is stealing a finite crime? Yes.
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment? Yes. (duh)
(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: How long it takes to commit a crime has no bearing on the punishment. At least not to civilized people. Willfully ignorant barbarians like you however...
Thank you for acknowledging my point, lol.
If the length of the crime has no bearing on the punishment, you don't get to object to infinite punishment based on the fact alone that the crime was finite in time.
(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Is infinite punishment for finite crimes just? Yes/no
For some kinds of finite crimes, yes, it is just. It's enough to point out one instance of recidivism when a murderer gets out of jail... and starts murdering people again.
(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: or as in claiming that the duration of a crime should have any impact on the punishment
You're either so horribly confused, or a dishonest moron. I said the exact opposite, repeatedly in these forums : the duration of the crime has no impact on the punishment, only the nature of the crime counts.
(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: If you come across a crime scene where a rape is about to happen, what do you do?
I will try to stop it OFC. But you seem to ignore that the rapist has free will too. If God intervenes to stop one rapist, he has no reason not to stop all the other crimes that are committed, and free will obviously cannot exist anymore.
Actualizing a sinless world WITH free will is logically impossible, Plantinga managed to prove that in his well-known Free will defense.
