(March 18, 2022 at 11:18 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 10:35 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Infinte punishment for finite crimes.

why are you still regurgitating this non-sense?

Is stealing a finite crime yes/no?
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment Yes/no?

(March 18, 2022 at 11:18 am)Klorophyll Wrote: Murdering someone or stealing them only takes seconds or minutes, and the punishment may be lifelong.

Why are you regurgitating this non-sense?
How long it takes to commit a crime has no bearing on the punishment. At least not to civilized people. Willfully ignorant barbarians like you however...

(March 18, 2022 at 11:18 am)Klorophyll Wrote: So your assertion above is a non-sequitur, +1 to fallacy tally.

Its not assertion, you idiot.
Weak sauce as well, for just throwing out shit in the hope something sticks. You saying i am commmitting fallacies does not make it so. Its an...wait for it....assertion.

(March 18, 2022 at 11:18 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 10:35 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Disgusting.

Your disgust has no bearing on whether a punishment is just

Good, cuz i never said that, moron. Disgust is only my reaction to you advertising cruel, immoral and injust punishment, and then doubling down and evading on it like you just did
Indeed disgusting.

Is infinite punishment for finite crimes just? Yes/no

(March 18, 2022 at 11:18 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 10:35 am)Deesse23 Wrote: ...says a guy with a moral compass skewed beyond recognition.

Ad hominem to dodge answering, +1 to fallacy tally.

Your moral compass is skewed as in claiming that infinite punishment for finite crimes is just, or as in claiming that the duration of a crime should have any impact on the punishment
Disgusting

(March 12, 2022 at 10:35 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(March 12, 2022 at 10:35 am)Deesse23 Wrote: You are now either advocating infinite punishment for finite crimes plus finite punishment, or you are backpedaling.
My bet is on #2

And you just lost the bet. Three fallacies in one post, keep up the good work.

If you come across a crime scene where a rape is about to happen, what do you do?

Why did you adress anything and everyting i said, albeit you adressed in a very mnoronic way as evidenced, but this issue? Why are you trying to desperately deflect from the issue?

Here ill write it down again for you moron, so you dont get confused in your reply. All i need is two answers to my questions. Nothing else, no deflections, no claims of me doing whatever, or being whatever, just answer these two questions. Any person with an intact moral compass is able to answer these two qesations, within a fraction of a second:

Is infite punishment for finite crimes just?
If you come across a crime scene where a rape is about to happen, what do you do?

(March 18, 2022 at 11:40 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you try to hit someone in the face, and you're stopped from hitting someone in the face, in what way is this a world where your free will to swing for a face is impossible?  You're excusing your gods incompetence by claiming this is impossible..but we know it isn't..because even if your god is incompetent in this regard, we aren't.  Long story short - if you think this is a good objection..as you just said it was...then you have a problem - as it makes the existence of god entirely immaterial.  The whole bit could be true, and it wouldn't matter.

I suspect that if you showed your work on the next claim, that naturalism and evolutionary theory can't both be true - if our brains are reliable - it will be of similar caliber.

You sound a bit inflexible about the whole matter. I explicitly referred the people asking about this to Plantinga's notion of transworld depravity, which you don't seem to have read about. To put it more forcefully, you can't refute theism merely by a few thought experiments about me hitting someone in the face. You and I know it's subtler than that.

---

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Is stealing a finite crime yes/no?
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment Yes/no?

Is stealing a finite crime? Yes.
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment? Yes. (duh)

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: How long it takes to commit a crime has no bearing on the punishment. At least not to civilized people. Willfully ignorant barbarians like you however...

Thank you for acknowledging my point, lol.
If the length of the crime has no bearing on the punishment, you don't get to object to infinite punishment based on the fact alone that the crime was finite in time.

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Is infinite punishment for finite crimes just? Yes/no

For some kinds of finite crimes, yes, it is just. It's enough to point out one instance of recidivism when a murderer gets out of jail... and starts murdering people again.

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: or as in claiming that the duration of a crime should have any impact on the punishment

You're either so horribly confused, or a dishonest moron. I said the exact opposite, repeatedly in these forums : the duration of the crime has no impact on the punishment, only the nature of the crime counts.

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: If you come across a crime scene where a rape is about to happen, what do you do?

I will try to stop it OFC. But you seem to ignore that the rapist has free will too. If God intervenes to stop one rapist, he has no reason not to stop all the other crimes that are committed, and free will obviously cannot exist anymore.

Actualizing a sinless world WITH free will is logically impossible, Plantinga managed to prove that in his well-known Free will defense.

(March 18, 2022 at 2:18 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(March 18, 2022 at 11:40 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you try to hit someone in the face, and you're stopped from hitting someone in the face, in what way is this a world where your free will to swing for a face is impossible?  You're excusing your gods incompetence by claiming this is impossible..but we know it isn't..because even if your god is incompetent in this regard, we aren't.  Long story short - if you think this is a good objection..as you just said it was...then you have a problem - as it makes the existence of god entirely immaterial.  The whole bit could be true, and it wouldn't matter.

I suspect that if you showed your work on the next claim, that naturalism and evolutionary theory can't both be true - if our brains are reliable - it will be of similar caliber.

You sound a bit inflexible about the whole matter. I explicitly referred the people asking about this to Plantinga's notion of transworld depravity, which you don't seem to have read about. To put it more forcefully, you can't refute theism merely by a few thought experiments about me hitting someone in the face. You and I know it's subtler than that.

Who said anything about refuting theism?  I asked you whether or not being prevented from hitting someone meant that it was impossible for you to freely will hitting someone.

Well?

(March 18, 2022 at 2:18 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Is stealing a finite crime yes/no?
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment Yes/no?

Is stealing a finite crime? Yes.
Is eternal torture an infinite punishment? Yes. (duh)

(March 18, 2022 at 1:05 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Is infinite punishment for finite crimes just? Yes/no

For some kinds of finite crimes, yes, it is just.

Thank you for admitting that you are a moral thug, that your moral compass is skewed and that you have no idea of ethics.
See it wasnt that hard. Just stop evading, stop the dishonesty and the unfair personal attacks at the questioner.

I have seen people worse than an willfully ignorant and unethical barbarian like you on these boards. I have seen people like you, but unwilling to admit what shitty people they are.

tl;dr
You are admittedly a terrible human being, but there still are worse ones around.  

(March 18, 2022 at 3:58 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Thank you for admitting that you are a moral thug, that your moral compass is skewed and that you have no idea of ethics.
See it wasnt that hard. Just stop evading, stop the dishonesty and the unfair personal attacks at the questioner.

I have seen people worse than an willfully ignorant and unethical barbarian like you on these boards. I have seen people like you, but unwilling to admit what shitty people they are.

tl;dr
You are admittedly a terrible human being, but there still are worse ones around.  

What's barbarian about condemning a mass murderer or a serial killer to eternal torment ?

Hitler is responsible for the death of tens of millions of people, @Deesse23. Tell me what kind of finite punishment do you think is just?

Let's do some math:

The value of one human life = infinity.

A murderer who takes away one human life can only get an infinitely long punishment to redress the injustice, any finite duration of emprisonment is inferior to infinity and therefore can't compensate the loss of one life.

There is only one way for you to defend your doomed morality: assign a finite value to human life, in which case you will be the moral thug here.

(March 18, 2022 at 4:35 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: What's barbarian about condemning a mass murderer or a serial killer to eternal torment ?

Nobody deserves to be tormented no matter what they did, let alone for infinity. There is no value in torturing someone unless you are a sadist who gets off on torture.

Quote:What's barbarian about condemning a mass murderer or a serial killer to eternal torment ?

The fact you need ask that question says it all

(March 18, 2022 at 4:35 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: What's barbarian about condemning a mass murderer or a serial killer to eternal torment ?

Exactly that.  

The physical incompetence of your god is now compounded by it's moral incompetence.

What goal would eternal torment complete ?

What would you be trying to achieve with eternal torment ?

Would you torture a child for 80 years for coloring outside the lines. You told them what the punishment would be. It's their fault for coloring outside the lines. Torturing them until they die would seem appropriate, right ?

How evil would you have to be to torture someone for 80 years ? 800 years ? 8 million years ? Eternal - for all time ?

It's pretty obvious that the aim for "God's eternal punishment" is not justice, but control. After all, if the punishment isn't eternal, well shit. Might be worth doing... even if it means a period of discomfort in the afterlife. Not a very good way to control people. It also reveals that religion is just another way that people control people. After all, God could come down and enact his justice in front of everyone if he really wanted to drive the point home.