The justice and mercy of God

[Cinjin]

The Jews that died at Hitler's hand could possibly be in Heaven, there is a verse in the OT that says God will take care of those he uses for a purpose,it might take some time to find it if you would like me to.

God allowed Hitler's victims to be gassed to death and incinerated for what purpose?

Yeah, and that was his own chosen people .... imagine what he'd let happen to plain ole folk like you and I!

Terrifying mother fucker!

[Blam!]

god can change the definitions of those words to suit his will. His game, his rules.

More like: Christians dimwits twist their religion to suit their needs. It's their game, their rules we're dealing with.

[Godscreated]

The Jews that died at Hitler's hand could possibly be in Heaven, there is a verse in the OT that says God will take care of those he uses for a purpose,it might take some time to find it if you would like me to.

God allowed Hitler's victims to be gassed to death and incinerated for what purpose?

This is only my opinion, it could have been to bring world wide sympathy for the Jews so that the world would restore them once again as the nation of Israel, this is a fulfilled prophesy.

Hitler did not get off scott free, some here say that Hitler was a Catholic and he may have been, that however does not mean he was saved and the proof of that was the evil he did.

How do you know what became of Hitler? And according to your religion's teachings, it's not about what people do on earth; it's about accepting Jesus Christ as saviour.

Works will not bring you into salvation, only the belief in Christ. The evil Hitler did is evidence that he was not a Catholic let lone christian. history tells us Hitler killed himself, why do you think he did that?

There are mysteries to God we do not understand until we face Him.

In other words, you see the apparent cruelty of this deity and are too afraid to confront it.

No, I see God working out His will for His purpose and we are not always privy to what God is doing.


[/quote]

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According to modern-day Pauline Christianity, a person is saved only if s/he accepts Jesus Christ as personal saviour. I asked the following questions in a Christian chat-room:

1) If an evil person sincerely asks for forgiveness and accepts Christ on their dying day, can they go to heaven? The answer was Yes.

2) In theory, if Hitler sincerely asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ on his dying day, he could have gone to heaven? The answer was Yes.

3) What about Hitler's victims, who were mostly Jews?
The majority's answer was: If they didn't accept Christ, they go to hell.

So, the murderer can go to heaven by accepting Jesus Christ, yet his victims go to hell for having a different opinion.


Is there any way to get Christians to see the total lack of reason and compassion in this line of thinking?

It's not an opinion, it is belief through faith. Hitler again, this is getting boring, Hitler would have never asked for forgiveness any man that was coward enough to take his life and not face the consequences of his actions is not going to humble himself before God to ask for forgiveness.

It doesn't matter whether Hitler asked for forgiveness or not.
The point is that he could've, and regardless of his monstrous crimes god would've welcomed him into heaven.
And his victims, whose only crime was to believe the "wrong" thing are condemned to hell for eternity.
And you think this is justice.

All I know to say to you, you have no clue of who God is and what his purpose is for mankind. If Hitler were to have asked God for forgiveness he would not have killed himself.

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It never fails to make me a little nauseous when I see Christian ignorance and arrogance at play.

God works in mysterious ways!?! That's just a fucking cop out, and an excuse for your god, and an excuse for yourself for being backward and brainwashed enough to adhere to his amoral codes.

Why should the Jews have become Christian while the Christians were starving them, beating them, tossing their babies in the air and seeing how many bullets they could hit them with before they hit the ground? Every one of those men were Christian, and it doesn't matter that you declare them unchristian, because they believed they were, just as you believe, GC. If GC's god exists, most of those assholes are in paradise, while their Jewish victims burn in hell, and all because they didn't say the magic words before they died/didn't have the right kind of spiritual experience when they were praying to the same god- Yahweh.

That is so beyond fucked up... it's.. there are no words to describe how utterly disgusting that is, but if you're a true christian, you must believe that. It's in the bible, after all.

I am the way, the truth, and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.

If Hitler, and his entire army of good Catholic soldiers believed that Christ was their savior, which they did, GC is going to be in heaven with all of them. I think I'd rather jump willingly into a lake of fire, or something.

Prove that Hitler and his soldiers were christians , you made the statement now give us your facts.

[Nanzilla]

There is no way to get a Christian to think logically. It would cause their head to explode if they tried.

[KichigaiNeko]

Prove that Hitler and his soldiers were christians , you made the statement now give us your facts.

Already been done GC...by Min and many others on this forum...do try to keep up with the dialogue...

or is your head exploding???

[Zen Badger]

My point being that it doesn't matter what you've done in your life. You could be the biggest murdering scum on the planet but all god cares about is that you love him. It could be Hitler, it could be anyone. Hitler is just a example of how fucked up your theology is.
Heaven by your definition could be full of rapists and serial killers. All who asked for "forgiveness" at the last moment.

[The Grand Nudger]

Spiritual brinksmanship.

Not the best of motivators, the fear of death (when it comes to morality, at least..and even less so when brinksmanship is an option). While it may come at any moment we spend a considerable amount of time not thinking about it. Many people, when contemplating their own deaths do so in the context of their last words, which could presumably be, "god, forgive all the terrible shit I didn't have a strong enough moral compass to prevent me from doing in the first place". It's legalism in place of a good life.

It's not even clear to me how one could be sinful or virtuous in the face of omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence in the first place. All these things which you may be rewarded or punished for are already known, there is no surprise, no test. A human life becomes a cog in the wheel of a being so much greater than themselves that the very idea of punishment or reward becomes as small and petty as we would be in relation to this being. Assuming that some deity invented this notion rather than ourselves is doing a disservice to the very idea of a deity. Heaven and hell, are, to me, platitudes crafted by human beings. Fantasies meant to console those who feel wronged or poorly compensated. Something of a Janus situation in our empathy, where good deeds not rewarded must be rewarded somehow, that some good deserves eternal reward that cannot be fully achieved in a human lifetime. On the opposite end, our empathy for others (and of course our self interest) leads us to conclude that some evils are so vile that punishment should have no end. My two cents and five bucks will buy you a cup of coffee....lol. (fucking inflation screwing with language....)

[Freedom]

To keep a lie going, one must put more lies on top of it. Adherence to this religion requires you to continue to make excuses and pile lies on top of lies, to keep elaborating to the point of ridiculousness. At some point, Godschild, you've got to acknowledge that things just don't add up. You have no clue what this god's purpose is either, so you say "it's a mystery of God." What sort of god would create a game of hide-and-seek, and give you only one lifetime to get it right, or else you burn forever?

[The Grand Nudger]

Sometimes we lie in service of a good notion. Unfortunately those lies create a massive potential for misdeed that can be argued to be in service of the same. GC probably has the best of intentions. He obviously has a mountain of excuses that allow him to extract some good from a narrative which is frankly abhorrent (even though he clearly suffers from considerable difficulty in trying to express it). It's easy to assume our intentions might have some effect on the under-laying reality of our beliefs, that because our interpretation of some holy text can lead to good, and good is the supposed purpose of the text, our interpretation must be the "true interpretation" -"For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction"...hehehe

[Godscreated]

Prove that Hitler and his soldiers were christians , you made the statement now give us your facts.

Already been done GC...by Min and many others on this forum...do try to keep up with the dialogue...

or is your head exploding???

I ask you, afraid to answer.

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My point being that it doesn't matter what you've done in your life. You could be the biggest murdering scum on the planet but all god cares about is that you love him. It could be Hitler, it could be anyone. Hitler is just a example of how fucked up your theology is.
Heaven by your definition could be full of rapists and serial killers. All who asked for "forgiveness" at the last moment.

You need to study the Bible those who are true believers are changed and no longer considered to be whatever their former self was. So no heaven will not be full of criminals.