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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 6, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Rhythm, because you follow every single post asking for evidence in discussions not about evidence that you are not even a part of in the first place, I will ignore you. So don't even bother wasting your time following my posts.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
-4th verse of the american national anthem
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 6, 2012 at 12:22 pm
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 6, 2012 at 6:12 pm
(March 6, 2012 at 11:59 am)chipan Wrote: @genkaus
Obviously you aren't going to see my point because you do not understand the concept of selflessness. Take a few psychology classes and just maybe you can learn about it. And btw, when I said God saves us from death I should have clarified I meant eternal death which is the second death. Of course you don't believe in that but one step at a time. Take some psychology classes to understand selflessness. Until you understand that concept, you and I will not be able to see eye to eye on this issue.
Oh, I see your your point alright. Probably better than you do.
You don't need a psychology class to understand the meaning of "selflessness", though you probably do need one to understand how someone can propose this corrupt doctrine as something good.
The meaning of selflessness is pretty self-evident - it means absence of self. It means concern for needs and desire for anything but yourself. It means setting up self-sacrifice, self-immolation and self-abnegation as a standard of "good".
In any morality, one of the central questions is "what should I live for"? The answer given by your doctrine of selflessness is "anything or anyone but yourself". That is the central con job of Christianity, as it is of many other religions. Once you convince someone that it is "evil" to live for oneself, you can replace the purpose of his life with anything you wish - god, the church, the king or the state. Just as long as it is not oneself. And your religion realizes that such a morality is impracticable on this earth. That one cannot consistently follow it and remain happy. Which is why it comes up with this fantasy of afterlife where you could be happy provided you accept misery here.
Do you understand what selflessness means? You probably have the naive kindergarten idea of selflessness where you get the warm, gushy feeling when you share your lunch. Or the gratitude you receive when you donate to charity. That's not being selfless, since you the expectation of the resulting emotions is what causes your acts. The fact that you are so dependent on others for your happy feelings reveals psychological issues in its own right, but that is irrelevant. You are not being selfless if your actions result in mutual benefit, because then you are not putting someone else's needs above yours, you are putting them together. And that is a rational choice to make. Actual selflessness - where you give benefit others at a loss - is irrational.
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 6, 2012 at 7:05 pm
(March 6, 2012 at 6:12 pm)genkaus Wrote: (March 6, 2012 at 11:59 am)chipan Wrote: @genkaus
Obviously you aren't going to see my point because you do not understand the concept of selflessness. Take a few psychology classes and just maybe you can learn about it. And btw, when I said God saves us from death I should have clarified I meant eternal death which is the second death. Of course you don't believe in that but one step at a time. Take some psychology classes to understand selflessness. Until you understand that concept, you and I will not be able to see eye to eye on this issue.
Oh, I see your your point alright. Probably better than you do.
You don't need a psychology class to understand the meaning of "selflessness", though you probably do need one to understand how someone can propose this corrupt doctrine as something good.
The meaning of selflessness is pretty self-evident - it means absence of self. It means concern for needs and desire for anything but yourself. It means setting up self-sacrifice, self-immolation and self-abnegation as a standard of "good".
In any morality, one of the central questions is "what should I live for"? The answer given by your doctrine of selflessness is "anything or anyone but yourself". That is the central con job of Christianity, as it is of many other religions. Once you convince someone that it is "evil" to live for oneself, you can replace the purpose of his life with anything you wish - god, the church, the king or the state. Just as long as it is not oneself. And your religion realizes that such a morality is impracticable on this earth. That one cannot consistently follow it and remain happy. Which is why it comes up with this fantasy of afterlife where you could be happy provided you accept misery here.
Do you understand what selflessness means? You probably have the naive kindergarten idea of selflessness where you get the warm, gushy feeling when you share your lunch. Or the gratitude you receive when you donate to charity. That's not being selfless, since you the expectation of the resulting emotions is what causes your acts. The fact that you are so dependent on others for your happy feelings reveals psychological issues in its own right, but that is irrelevant. You are not being selfless if your actions result in mutual benefit, because then you are not putting someone else's needs above yours, you are putting them together. And that is a rational choice to make. Actual selflessness - where you give benefit others at a loss - is irrational.
Well I can't make you admire selflessness. And I don't do it for the warm gutsy feeling when they give me gratitude. I often help people who ask and treat me like crap because they need it. I help people out without them even realizing it and don't tell them. If you think it's irrational, fine. But that doesn't mean I give up all rationality.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
-4th verse of the american national anthem
Posts: 67319
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 6, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Ever the suffering martyr.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 6, 2012 at 9:55 pm
He should change his name to chipon, thus drawing attention to his shoulder.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 9, 2012 at 2:35 pm
(March 6, 2012 at 7:05 pm)chipan Wrote: And I don't do it for the warm gutsy feeling when they give me gratitude.
Then what do you do it for? Or are all of your actions equally purposeless?
(March 6, 2012 at 7:05 pm)chipan Wrote: I often help people who ask and treat me like crap because they need it. I help people out without them even realizing it and don't tell them.
Why?
(March 6, 2012 at 7:05 pm)chipan Wrote: If you think it's irrational, fine. But that doesn't mean I give up all rationality.
Yes, it does.
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 10, 2012 at 12:16 am
(February 3, 2012 at 12:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: It's usually argued that allowing evil was necessary to allow free-will.
A problem with this is that we know some people are not evil but good.
Psalm 14:3
New King James Version (NKJV)
"They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one."
Your viewpoint is not universal - FYI
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 10, 2012 at 12:28 am
C'mon, black36 Proof-texting!?! That won't get you very far here.
MysticK, the way you stated it makes it confusing. Try stating it this way. When God provides freewill that means he permits evil,in the sense that he knows some people will be good while others will choose evil.
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RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
March 10, 2012 at 12:56 am
(March 10, 2012 at 12:28 am)ChadWooters Wrote: C'mon, black36 Proof-texting!?! That won't get you very far here.
I'm not isolating anything. I am refuting the foundation of the post's presupposition.
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