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(February 4, 2012 at 9:23 pm)Freedom Wrote: "May God show you the way."
That is what a homeless couple was told today. They are living in a motel because they were evicted from their apartment. The husband has been unemployed and looking for work, but their situation is only getting worse.
When will religious people, particularly Christians, realise that no prayer will provide housing and food? It is compassionate people who make these provisions.
Pointing to god is what is causing unnecessary suffering.
*sigh*
How is pointing to God causing unnecessary suffering, did the church fire this man or did the church keep him from getting a job.
What has the secular world done for this couple, in all actuality you have not given us enough of the story to actually know what happened. You only gave enough to put the church in a bad light, not saying it was on purpose, just not enough.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(February 5, 2012 at 4:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: How is pointing to God causing unnecessary suffering, did the church fire this man or did the church keep him from getting a job.
What has the secular world done for this couple, in all actuality you have not given us enough of the story to actually know what happened. You only gave enough to put the church in a bad light, not saying it was on purpose, just not enough.
Pointing to a god causes unnecessary suffering in general, not specifically attached to this situation. The point being that suggesting false solutions to problems does nothing but prolong the problem.
February 5, 2012 at 4:18 pm (This post was last modified: February 5, 2012 at 4:19 pm by Cyberman.)
The circumstances in this case are irrelevant. Two human beings find themselves in a desperate situation, religious person/s offered inappropriate platitudes instead of practical help and advice. I'm sure if such help had been offered Freedom would have felt it worth mentioning. The point is not that hard to spot for anyone who sympathises in the human condition.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(February 4, 2012 at 9:23 pm)Freedom Wrote: "May God show you the way."
That is what a homeless couple was told today. They are living in a motel because they were evicted from their apartment. The husband has been unemployed and looking for work, but their situation is only getting worse.
When will religious people, particularly Christians, realise that no prayer will provide housing and food? It is compassionate people who make these provisions.
Pointing to god is what is causing unnecessary suffering.
*sigh*
Most American Christians dont really want to be in a situation like that. They dont want to see it. They worship capitalism. They support the conspets of "rich" and "poor" to exist in their society. Sure, they may say they dont like people being poor, but by supporting the system (and being the vast majority of that system) they continue the cycle of pain.
Jesus turned the money changing tables over in the temple, spoke of money being the property of the govt, and not of the Lord. Spoke of his followers giving all they own to the poor, and even his disciples creating a commune just after the ascension.
A Christian would be aghast at the idea of their God being printed on money. Someone who worships the captialistic system, on the other hand, loves the idea that God is their money.
"In God we trust" printed on the very source of ruin and greed in our country.
February 5, 2012 at 6:56 pm (This post was last modified: February 5, 2012 at 6:58 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:Pointing to a god causes unnecessary suffering in general,
Not to mention that pointing to a god will accomplish exactly NOTHING.
(February 5, 2012 at 1:22 pm)Rokcet Scientist Wrote:
(February 5, 2012 at 10:50 am)Minimalist Wrote: Horseshit. Religious-based "charities" are marketing arms. When they stop giving the hungry a spoonful of jesus with every spoonful of soup then you can tell me altruistic they are.
Agreed.
With the exception of the Salvation Army, afaik. They provide bed, bath, and bread when neccessary but won't raise the subject unless you ask or give them an occassion to do so.
Ever see what Mencken wrote about the Salvation Army?
Quote:The New Deal began, like the Salvation Army, by promising to save humanity. It ended, again like the Salvation Army, by running flop-houses and disturbing the peace.
February 5, 2012 at 8:28 pm (This post was last modified: February 5, 2012 at 8:32 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
(February 5, 2012 at 6:53 am)CliveStaples Wrote:
(February 4, 2012 at 9:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:When will religious people, particularly Christians, realise that no prayer will provide housing and food?
They won't. It is the natural result of believing in magical solutions.
Right, that explains the complete lack of Christian charities. Oh, wait...
(February 5, 2012 at 1:22 pm)Rokcet Scientist Wrote:
(February 5, 2012 at 10:50 am)Minimalist Wrote: Horseshit. Religious-based "charities" are marketing arms. When they stop giving the hungry a spoonful of jesus with every spoonful of soup then you can tell me altruistic they are.
Agreed.
With the exception of the Salvation Army, afaik. They provide bed, bath, and bread when neccessary but won't raise the subject unless you ask or give them an occassion to do so.
Except that they dont always provide bed, bath and bread...and typically employ bums at less than minimum wage to fix furniture for profit in their stores.
February 5, 2012 at 9:29 pm (This post was last modified: February 5, 2012 at 9:30 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Reminds me the story of the practical Christian:
"When I was 12, I prayed to God for a whole year for a bike.When no bike was forth coming, I went out, stole a bike,then prayed for forgiveness"
As a Catholic,I would go to confession,where the priest would tell me to return the bike. Of course I always ignored that bit,along with anything else hard or inconvenient. For some reason,non Catholics have never been able to quite grasp the sheer pragmatism of the confessional.
February 5, 2012 at 10:03 pm (This post was last modified: February 5, 2012 at 10:10 pm by Cosmic Ape.)
(February 5, 2012 at 6:53 am)CliveStaples Wrote:
(February 4, 2012 at 9:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:When will religious people, particularly Christians, realise that no prayer will provide housing and food?
They won't. It is the natural result of believing in magical solutions.
Right, that explains the complete lack of Christian charities. Oh, wait...
Yeah, as you hold a bible over starving children, forcing them to convert or starve. Yeah I'd convert too if it meant getting some fuckin food and shelter. And there are plenty of secular charities all over the world, so dont pretend your religion has the market on helping people. They dont hold food as a weapon to convert, its sickening and you should be ashamed that you think religion is the only thing that causes people to do good. To me, people who do that have no sense of morality because they have to have a reason to do good, or be scared into doing good. The people who do good without supernatural hogwash are the real heroes, and yes even religious people who help without converting are helping too, just in a less positive way for mankind. Cut the superfluous religious nonsense and you have my endorsement for helping starving and sick kids. But since you feel the need to be pretentious about your religion, I wont support any charity that holds basic needs hostage for their religion.
Quote:When will religious people, particularly Christians, realise that no prayer will provide housing and food?
They won't. It is the natural result of believing in magical solutions.
Right, that explains the complete lack of Christian charities. Oh, wait...
Yeah, as you hold a bible over starving children, forcing them to convert or starve. Yeah I'd convert too if it meant getting some fuckin food and shelter. And there are plenty of secular charities all over the world, so dont pretend your religion has the market on helping people. They dont hold food as a weapon to convert, its sickening and you should be ashamed that you think religion is the only thing that causes people to do good. To me, people who do that have no sense of morality because they have to have a reason to do good, or be scared into doing good. The people who do good without supernatural hogwash are the real heroes, and yes even religious people who help without converting are helping too, just in a less positive way for mankind. Cut the superfluous religious nonsense and you have my endorsement for helping starving and sick kids. But since you feel the need to be pretentious about your religion, I wont support any charity that holds basic needs hostage for their religion.
You have a truely twisted way of looking at things. The charities set up by church are peopled by believers who feel a genuine motivation to help others. Their preaching is another example of their genuine motivation to help others. They think without God you will go to hell. The Christians that do not proselytize are the ones who are the hypocrites (Or well behaved theists on this board).
That being said, there is some truth to what Min puts forth. The missions really are the marketing arm of the church, but only mixed in with a large motivation to help others. It would be better if they were secular, because then there wouldn't be the apparent conflict of interest.
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