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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 8:44 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 8:45 am by spockrates.)
(August 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm)Gambit Wrote: That seems to fit the description, as I remember it.
Yes, and there are examples in Job and elsewhere is scripture.
Now, I'm a Christian, so this is not easy to say, but Jesus has taught me the truth will always set me free. So here goes:
It seems to me that to order someone to do something makes one culpable for that thing the one ordered does. An example: The leader of a street gang orders a hit on the leader of a rival gang. They carry out his orders and murder the rival. I'd say the gang leader is just as guilty of committing murder as the ones pulling the triggers! Don't you agree?
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 8:48 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 8:49 am by The Grand Nudger.)
More likely conspiracy to commit. Morally or ideally? I think a lot of people would agree, yeah.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 8:52 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 9:14 am by spockrates.)
(August 3, 2012 at 2:35 pm)Skepsis Wrote: (August 3, 2012 at 12:37 pm)spockrates Wrote: Wisdom is the goal, Skepsis. Is there another more worth seeking?
Wisdom is a bit... general. I was hoping for a more short-term answer, but not so short-term as to reference this thread.
Ahh... Nevermind. I just wanted to know more about your motives so I might be able to understand your character. It's clear you don't like getting picked at for information, so I'll leave it be.
Sorry for the vague answer. Please let me try to be more specific: I'm a Christian, but I'm not into partisan politics, or partisan religion. I continuously question everything I believe (putting it to the test) and hold on only to what is true (to what passes the test). Does that shed betterlight on my motives?
(August 4, 2012 at 2:23 am)Godschild Wrote: (August 3, 2012 at 7:14 am)spockrates Wrote: ... I the Lord have deceived that prophet ...
(Ezekiel 14:9)
And if the prophet gives a deceiving prophecy, then I the LORD have deceived him by not giving him the prophecy, I will make a fool of him before My nation, Israel, for trying to deceive them.
spockrates Wrote:... it was impossible for God to lie ...
(Hebrews 6:18)
The two verses have nothing to do with each other. I hope this clears things up for you.
Actually, it's still clear as mud!
The writer of Hebrews says it is impossible for God to lie. Ezekiel quotes God as saying he himself deceives. Are you thinking that deceiving is not the same as telling a lie?
(August 4, 2012 at 8:48 am)Rhythm Wrote: More likely conspiracy to commit. Morally or ideally? I think a lot of people would agree, yeah.
Yes, so let's say (hypothetically speaking) Ezekiel is speaking of God not ordering some fallen angel to deceive someone, but instead, allowing some fallen angel to deceive someone. Would this scenario fit the quote Ezekiel attributes to God?
"...I the LORD have deceived that prophet... ."
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 9:46 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 9:51 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Sure, so long as we are imagining scenarios, and we are willing to keep imagining scenarios until we get the answer we want, anything becomes possible. Anything is possible, of course, because we have set no limits on what we are willing to imagine, and possibility is a much more elastic term in our imaginations than it is anywhere else.
Does this surprise you in any way? How else would this pan out? The contradiction in text remains. But the text isn't what matters (as you have so effectively demonstrated in these threads).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 10:19 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 10:22 am by spockrates.)
(August 4, 2012 at 9:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: Sure, so long as we are imagining scenarios, and we are willing to keep imagining scenarios until we get the answer we want, anything becomes possible. Anything is possible, of course, because we have set no limits on what we are willing to imagine, and possibility is a much more elastic term in our imaginations than it is anywhere else.
Yes, thanks for playing along!
(August 4, 2012 at 9:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: Does this surprise you in any way? How else would this pan out? The contradiction in text remains. But the text isn't what matters (as you have so effectively demonstrated in these threads).
Frankly, yes. I am surprised, having never been put in this situation. At the moment, I see no way to deny the contradiction. But Jesus said Christians like me are to be gentle as doves, but wise as snakes. Let's see if there is any way this serpent can wiggle free! Shall we? If I fail, I suppose you'll at least enjoy watching me squirm!
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 10:21 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 10:28 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I thought we were looking for real and significant contradictions. I see neither. All I see are two different authors takes on an existing IP. For either of these passages to be contradictory in the world outside of the tales we tell, the events and characters described would have to exist outside of the tale. They do not. Why compare one work of fiction against another for consistency (aside from an interest in editing)? So, no problem?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 10:23 am
(August 4, 2012 at 10:21 am)Rhythm Wrote: I thought we were looking for real and significant contradictions. I see neither. All I see are two different authors takes on an existing IP.
What does IP mean?
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 10:30 am
Intellectual Property. In this case, a literary franchise.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 10:39 am
(August 4, 2012 at 10:30 am)Rhythm Wrote: Intellectual Property. In this case, a literary franchise.
Yes, I'll go along with that. Two contrary IPs. Care to see if this snake can wiggle his way out of them?
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 10:39 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2012 at 10:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-There isn't anything to wiggle out of- ?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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