A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?

[The Grand Nudger]

Which is troubling for the idea of god, imho, Spock. I suppose I am just supposed to sit around and wait to see if god chose me or not, so that I might find myself in a "better" playpen. Well, I think I'll pass on that one. I've often mentioned that were there to be no doubt that any such god existed, or that such a god "gave me a ring" at all...I still wouldn't be a christian, and I'd probably hang up the phone. I'd like to think that, but who knows, maybe I'm such a weak minded piece of shit that I'd capitulate on this to save my (at that point worthless) hide.

I suppose that at least indirectly, Calvinists and I would agree on one thing. Our "nature" may not be something we get to pick and choose from. It's in my nature to demand more of a deity and of myself, for example. Whether or not it's in my nature to remain consistent with that principle- meh, who knows?

[Napoléon]

Regarding this being an atheist-only forum, I read online that this is a forum designed for atheists, agnostics and people of religios faiths to respectfully discuss. Was I deceived about that, too?

You must be, I ain't seen any requirements on here that we have to be 'respectful'

Are atheists granted the same respect on theist forums? Hell fucking no. The fact that theists don't get banned straight off the bat like we would on most theist sites is a testament to how much respect we actually give you.

[jonb]

If it looks like, sounds like, and is a- it should be treated as such
even if it dances

[Drich]

Yes, I agree there is a difference between self-deception and deception caused by another. But isn't God saying that he is the one doing the deceiving?

"...I the LORD have deceived that prophet... ."

No if you follow the link i gave it takes you to the orginal hebrew text. It says in essence God turn the false prophet over to deception/persuasion. (He did not interveen when the prophets vanity told him to follow a falsehood.)

Are you thinking the King James version has mistranslated Ezekiel?

Ah, no. Does the King James version have greek and Hebrew words in the margines? No. I am translating from the orginal texts. To which I gave you a link if you were interested in a truth beyond your failed arguement.

[spockrates]

Cato:

Don't you know that things are not always as they seem? I am keenly aware of my susceptibility to self-deception. So I ask what others think. To ponder alone is less likely to cure me of my deception than to think it through with others. The same is true if I'm not deceived: To ponder alone is less likely to assure me I'm not deceived than than to think it through with people like you.

Regarding this being an atheist-only forum, I read online that this is a forum designed for atheists, agnostics and people of religios faiths to respectfully discuss. Was I deceived about that, too?

Everyone is welcome at AF. My point was that your biblical gymnastics is misplaced.

You may be keenly aware of your susceptibility to self-deception, but have no problem wallowing in it if you believe in the god of the bible.

I think you misunderstand, Cato my friend. I said I am aware that I am susceptible to deception, and so I wonder if I'm deceived. I'm not yet convinced that I am, but am willing to consider any insight you have about me.

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Which is troubling for the idea of god, imho, Spock. I suppose I am just supposed to sit around and wait to see if god chose me or not, so that I might find myself in a "better" playpen. Well, I think I'll pass on that one. I've often mentioned that were there to be no doubt that any such god existed, or that such a god "gave me a ring" at all...I still wouldn't be a christian, and I'd probably hang up the phone. I'd like to think that, but who knows, maybe I'm such a weak minded piece of shit that I'd capitulate on this to save my (at that point worthless) hide.

I suppose that at least indirectly, Calvinists and I would agree on one thing. Our "nature" may not be something we get to pick and choose from. It's in my nature to demand more of a deity and of myself, for example. Whether or not it's in my nature to remain consistent with that principle- meh, who knows?

Yes, who knows? You might be picked up out of the pen you're in and, as C.S. Lewis said of himself, be picked up and carried "kicking and screaming" into the other pen. I might follow you, if the Calvinists who tell me I'm only imagining I'm in their pen are correct!



But yes, it's a troubling idea to me, too, but perhaps for different reasons. The idea seems based on the premise that who is heaven bound and who is hell-bent is based son a completely arbitrary decision of God.

:o

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Regarding this being an atheist-only forum, I read online that this is a forum designed for atheists, agnostics and people of religios faiths to respectfully discuss. Was I deceived about that, too?

You must be, I ain't seen any requirements on here that we have to be 'respectful'

Are atheists granted the same respect on theist forums? Hell fucking no. The fact that theists don't get banned straight off the bat like we would on most theist sites is a testament to how much respect we actually give you.

That's OK; I think I can take it!



But yes, atheists have been banned completely from one forum I frequent, and are allowed to participate but frequently expelled if they don't be careful what they say at another.

I was kicked off of one Christian forum and threatened with being banned from another!

[Faith No More]

I was kicked off of one Christian forum and threatened with being banned from another!

For what?

[spockrates]

If it looks like, sounds like, and is a- it should be treated as such
even if it dances

Looks to me to be more like a bad-ass ninja dwarf than a troll! But I'm curious why you think me a troll. Isn't a troll someone who is a partisan--who thinks he is right and wants to fool others into believing as he does?

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Yes, I agree there is a difference between self-deception and deception caused by another. But isn't God saying that he is the one doing the deceiving?

"...I the LORD have deceived that prophet... ."

No if you follow the link i gave it takes you to the orginal hebrew text. It says in essence God turn the false prophet over to deception/persuasion. (He did not interveen when the prophets vanity told him to follow a falsehood.)

Are you thinking the King James version has mistranslated Ezekiel?

Ah, no. Does the King James version have greek and Hebrew words in the margines? No. I am translating from the orginal texts. To which I gave you a link if you were interested in a truth beyond your failed arguement.

So are you saying the words, "I the LORD have deceived the prophet," would better be translated as, "I the LORD [have allowed] the prophet [to be] deceived"?

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I was kicked off of one Christian forum and threatened with being banned from another!

For what?

Well, I was threatened with being banned from carm.org after telling a forum member that I admired him for putting up with all the disrespect from other forum members. I did not notice that the one leading the attack on him was a forum moderator!



I was threatened with being banned from catholic.com after asking, "Is God a loaf of bread?"

[jonb]

But I'm curious why you think me a troll. Isn't a troll someone who is a partisan--who thinks he is right and wants to fool others into believing as he does?

The part of your nature that you have chosen to depict is not anywhere near as genuine as that, I do not think you are at all.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, who knows? You might be picked up out of the pen you're in and, as C.S. Lewis said of himself, be picked up and carried "kicking and screaming" into the other pen. I might follow you, if the Calvinists who tell me I'm only imagining I'm in their pen are correct!



But yes, it's a troubling idea to me, too, but perhaps for different reasons. The idea seems based on the premise that who is heaven bound and who is hell-bent is based son a completely arbitrary decision of God.

Arbitrary decisions of god probably shouldn't bother someone who is devoted to the same. In then end, all decisions attributed to god must be arbitrary, else we erode the idea of god in the first place. That these arbitrary decisions are unsatisfying to us, as human beings, doesn't surprise me in the least. Ergo apologetics.

[Napoléon]

I was threatened with being banned from catholic.com after asking, "Is God a loaf of bread?"

Lol I've just got a new-found respect for you Spock.

In fairness, he supposedly appears on toast, so it's not all that strange a question...