Girls! Show your contempt for religion -Have butt sex!

[TaraJo]

Wow, sounds complicated. Still I guess it must be nice having a group you definitely belong in.

I don't really know if I want to belong to this particular social group anymore. Too many drama queens, too many wannabe social activists who are determined to do everything they can to e as out of touch with society as they can, too much anger and hostility, too many cliques and just not really what I want at this point in my life.

I dunno. I'm starting to have my own theories about the trans community. When people go in, they're emotionally hurt because of all the garbage we have to put up with. They stick around, get the support and services and resources they need and that's when things change. Now they generally aren't psychologically troubled anymore and can move on with their lives. They have their own other issues and priorities and generally stuff to do and they move on to those things. The people who don't move around are the people who are still so troubled or horribly unpassible that they can't move on and, as a result, a lot of the trans community has some very psychologically troubled people. But, that's just personal observation; it varies from person to person and there are still a lot of really cool people there. That being said, I probably would have moved on entirely if not for the fact that my boyfriend needs his own support since he's really early on.

[Tempus]

This has become an interesting thread.

[Justtristo]

Read romans 1 again. Paul is ranting on about all sorts of 'crimes', from fornicating to dishonouring your parents and "men turning their bodies from it's natural use, and lusting after men" "so to did the women...", and then at the end of romans 1 he says they are all worthy of death.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.


Romans 1:26-27 New American Standard Bible.

According to a footnote in this translation, the literal translation for the word unnatural in verse 26 is "against nature". At least in the following verse the author is explicitly condemning male homosexual relations.

However I am inclined to believe that the author is condemning certain sexual practices (which included both male and female temple prostitution) which would be a part of worship of gods other than Yahweh. I am inclined to believe this is because earlier in the chapter starting in verse 18, the author goes on about how people exchanged the living god for idols.

As far as I know I am not aware that females had sex with other females in that place and time, which was associated with worship of particular gods. Hey I could be wrong here and will happily change my opinion. All I know of these sort of religious worship, is that men had sex with both female and male scared prostitutes.

[Violet]

Wow, sounds complicated. Still I guess it must be nice having a group you definitely belong in.

It's pretty cool, you get to hear about the ups and downs of trans-related issues in the lives of your friends. I don't belong in the local GLBT organization, no not at all... the only group I particularly look forward to seeing every week or so is my trans* group. And that's because almost all of them are my friends and/or people I like or at the least don't mind seeing. We did have one totally asshole member for a short time last year, but they got kicked for being a total ass

I mean its one of the perks of being in a minority I guess.

I would probably still go even if we weren't a minority population... unlike sexuality: no matter how socially accepted being transsexual becomes... it will still be a challenge to deal with.

Also no-one could accuse you of being boring. I mean if just how you define gender and sexuality is an immensely complex subject of debate in a community then you're going to inevitably have more interesting conversations. They get alot of practice with the more indepth subjects. Although I suppose in that regard simplicity must be an extremely rare and welcome commodity. Nobody wants to have that kind of involved shit on their mind 24/7.

I'm an incredibly simple person... if you say you're a man then you are almost certainly a man, and if you say you're a woman then you are almost certainly a woman, and if you say you are neither/both/partly one then you are almost certainly what you say you are

I guess thats why alot of people who live that lifestyle are mostly rather interesting to talk to.

I wouldn't be the one to call being trans so much a 'lifestyle' as a 'condition'. I'd like to believe that lifestyles are a matter of 'choice' (in example... the Rastafarian lifestyle).

[Puddleglum]

Trans operations are cheaper here (I spend some of the year in Thailand and I'm there right now)

[Violet]

I don't really know if I want to belong to this particular social group anymore. Too many drama queens, too many wannabe social activists who are determined to do everything they can to be as out of touch with society as they can, too much anger and hostility, too many cliques and just not really what I want at this point in my life.

When you see such bullshit as 'Black Transman Conference', don't you just have to wonder why the hell we are so fucking split? I'd think we've had few enough allies as it is in the past (the gays, lesbians, and bisexuals were evil to us in the early-middle days of their modern movement) and we aren't yet smothered in civil rights either.

What do? SEGREGATE EACH OTHER. Yeah! That's the spirit!

---

I dunno. I'm starting to have my own theories about the trans community. When people go in, they're emotionally hurt because of all the garbage we have to put up with. They stick around, get the support and services and resources they need and that's when things change. Now they generally aren't psychologically troubled anymore and can move on with their lives. They have their own other issues and priorities and generally stuff to do and they move on to those things. The people who don't move around are the people who are still so troubled or horribly unpassible that they can't move on and, as a result, a lot of the trans community has some very psychologically troubled people. But, that's just personal observation; it varies from person to person and there are still a lot of really cool people there. That being said, I probably would have moved on entirely if not for the fact that my boyfriend needs his own support since he's really early on.

---

I think for some that might be correct... but there's certainly plenty like me who just want to be there for new people. I didn't need the giant circlejerk of trans forums myself (they seemed always too happy, to never give enough criticism, to never debate anything... this forum has fucking spoiled me), since I dealt with this bullshit mostly by myself...

But I'll be damned if I didn't need at least a few of my fellows in my life, some of them I owe a great deal, even. If I can be like that for some young girl/guy/zer/GQ someday... then someone else will get the same relief I did Being told I could DIY, and shown an example of where, and that it was legal... Game-changing.

---

Trans operations are cheaper here (I spend some of the year in Thailand and I'm there right now)

I've heard some horror stories from transpeople who've gone to Thailand ("There are more ladyboys than there are fish there."* )... I'm not going to risk it, but to each their own.

Mostly terrified that they'd give me excellent care pre-surgery, then push me out afterwards without so much as a dilator to my name. Then to watch as my urethra closes up and I have to take a visit to yet another doctor just to fix problems with the first time.

*Straight friend of mine.

[greneknight]

OK, this is uncharted water for me but I'm slowly getting the picture. Violet and Tara are transvestites (I'd rather not use "trans" since someone on another thread took issue with me for calling Japanese Japs). If you avatars are really your pics, I must say you both look absolutely female. The surgery you are talking about must be a surgery to change a boy into a girl physically. My advice is not to do it. You can't be sure if you won't change your mind in a couple of years. I know a boy who was a trans when he was very young and then very recently, he became like a regular boy and he even played rugby. We're all growing, whatever age we may be. What we are today won't be the same as what we will be in a few years.

I'm a little confused about TaraJo. I thought I read in another thread that she said she was interested in a girl. I thought she even said she had a girlfriend. So I thought she was a lesbian. But maybe it was someone else and I've mixed up the people.

[Polaris]

Well if they want to, they should use AstroGlide because it helps to keep the butthole from falling out due to excessive butt-fucking.

[Violet]

OK, this is uncharted water for me but I'm slowly getting the picture. Violet and Tara are transvestites (I'd rather not use "trans" since someone on another thread took issue with me for calling Japanese Japs).

Someone shoot me now. In the face.

With a fucking cannon.

There is a massive difference between transsexual and transvestites. Transvestites are, for the most part, limited to crossdressing. (For purposes of this explanation, I will be using the traditionally understood male transvestite and yes, there are transvestites among both men and women.) A (male) transvestite is usually understood to be a crossdesser who feels better/more relaxed/(sometimes aroused) wearing women's clothing. They still identify as a guy... an example of your average garden transvestite is a Drag Queen)

A transsexual, on the other hand, is a person whose expressed/experienced gender is not reflected by their sex. Example... I am a woman (clearly?), though my body was born with the male sex. Hence, I have a penis, and many of the secondary sexual characteristics that testosterone causes.

(transsexual is interchangeable with transgendered)

There are transgendered women, just as there are transgendered men (men born with the female sex and shit like breasts... and no penis). Calling any of us transvestites? That's just a little painful, but I know you meant no disrespect

If you avatars are really your pics, I must say you both look absolutely female.

No kidding? Want to see my cock before you go throwing around those "absolutes"? /jest

The surgery you are talking about must be a surgery to change a boy into a girl physically.

??????

That doesn't make any sense. I mean, I understand it's an ultrasimplified way of saying it... but it's precisely because of such that it becomes incorrect. Links to study!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassig...-to-female
^List of various surgies, and a general idea of what they entail, with further links for the interested within.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassig...le-to-male
^Same for transmen, unfortunately: the genital surgeries available are simply not comparable to those that transwomen have (it's harder to make a penis than a vagina... luckily the clitoral enlargement from HRT helps a little... it's just that... a little.)

My advice is not to do it.

That's cool, would you like some fries with that? Not to be snappy, but most what you'll do with giving people your advice all the time is to irritate them/piss them off/wear them down.

You can't be sure if you won't change your mind in a couple of years.

Haven't 'changed my mind' once since I was 13 and it finally sunk in, as I lay in bed with my best friend and lover. As far as I can tell, I've always been a woman... just what is it I could be changing here? I didn't realize this was a choice... suffer like this for the rest of my life or enjoy being free of the fucking penis.

Seriously... I care more to remove this thing forcibly (by knife no less) than to get a vagina. The vagina would be bonus, and pleasurable genitals is something I shudder to think the world at large would love to be without.

I know a boy who was a trans when he was very young and then very recently, he became like a regular boy and he even played rugby.

For all you know, they are still a woman. I know a transwoman who was once a boxer, I know transwomen who were once wrestlers, I know a transwoman who was once an offensive linebacker in handegg. I know a transman who was once a soccer player, and who was also once in the army. By no means is someone playing a sport any indication of their gender. By no means is someone necessarily a 'regular boy' simply because they've decided to act that way in public until they are ready to transition proper (bullying is often responsible... and who would try to bully a rugby player? ).

That said, yes: it is possible that they are a guy... when puberty kicks in for the first time, many things change. Peaceful kids get aggo, panicky kids chill out, and some stay exactly the same... a really handy tool for transpeople is Hormone Replacement Therapy, entirely because you are experiencing a second puberty. My first puberty was hell to me... I got facial hair, my body hair went crazy, my voice dropped, my adams apple bulged out, my balls dropped, and I was in general miserable.

We're all growing, whatever age we may be. What we are today won't be the same as what we will be in a few years.

I'm a little confused about TaraJo. I thought I read in another thread that she said she was interested in a girl. I thought she even said she had a girlfriend. So I thought she was a lesbian. But maybe it was someone else and I've mixed up the people.

Aleialoura, (sp?) I think.

Tara's dating a transman (Lee).

[TaraJo]

OK, this is uncharted water for me but I'm slowly getting the picture. Violet and Tara are transvestites (I'd rather not use "trans" since someone on another thread took issue with me for calling Japanese Japs). If you avatars are really your pics, I must say you both look absolutely female. The surgery you are talking about must be a surgery to change a boy into a girl physically. My advice is not to do it. You can't be sure if you won't change your mind in a couple of years. I know a boy who was a trans when he was very young and then very recently, he became like a regular boy and he even played rugby. We're all growing, whatever age we may be. What we are today won't be the same as what we will be in a few years.

I'm a little confused about TaraJo. I thought I read in another thread that she said she was interested in a girl. I thought she even said she had a girlfriend. So I thought she was a lesbian. But maybe it was someone else and I've mixed up the people.

Eh....... close enough. I could easily bitch you out for use of the word 'transvestite' but trans terminology can be complicated enough to be its own fucking college class.

Surgical desires, really, I don't see myself changing my mind and I've talked to far more trans women who are glad they've gotten the surgery vs those who regret it. If I was going to have regrets, I'd already be there since I can't get rid of these bewbs without surgery; thing is, I love my breasts (I mean, seriously, sometimes I just like to sit there on the couch and bounce them around just because I finally can).

No, I'm not dating a girl. My boyfriend is ts as well; it's kinda ironic because when we met I thought he was just a slightly butch girl and then a few months later I found out how much he hates being a girl. I'm bi, though, so I can date either guys or girls. Honestly, I know more gay identified trans people than straight identified trans people.

Anyway, why do you want to know who I date? Are you coming on to me, greneknight?