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Re: RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 4:30 pm
(October 31, 2012 at 4:05 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: If prayer is about following God's will/direction, what is the praying for? When you pray are you asking for guidance? In that case, once again, how do you know you've received it?
Whether it's a fulfilled wish or a response in a request for guidance, in both cases, how do you know that your prayer has been answered?
Forgive me for not answering your 1st question. You and I have done that one beyond death.
Prayer is talking with God. It's the live relationship where you discover his will. You know his will as you test it against your knowledge of him. If it is inconsistent with accepted (by you) knowledge then it's not him.
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 4:33 pm
So, how do you compensate for your own bias when determining whether you're actually talking to god?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2012 at 4:36 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Well I wouldn't see coincidences as miraculous evidence. If you see it as evidence then I don't know what I could do to convince you otherwise. Why don't you think that they're coincidences when such extraordinary things require extraordinary evidence?
DvF Wrote:When you pray are you asking for guidance?
(October 31, 2012 at 4:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Sometimes yes. [...]My prayers center around my pride and my selfishness. I often see these two things as the biggest obsticals in what is preventing me from moving forward.
I don't value pride either, but I see selfishness and selflessness as both important. It's important to value both oneself and others.
Quote:Sometimes you don't. Othertimes a big trial results in humility or result in giving.
It just sounds like confirmation bias again. Counting the hits, ignoring the misses, or making subjective rationalizations.
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Quote:Context, context, context
Context my ass.
Luke 11:
Quote:9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Your fucking jesus sounds like a used car salesman trying to unload a clunker on some poor bastard. How can a semi-literate person like you even fall for such utter horseshit?
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 4:52 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2012 at 4:53 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 31, 2012 at 4:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Forgive me for not answering your 1st question. You and I have done that one beyond death.
I shall not forgive you. But that's because I never resented you in the first place TA-DA!
Quote:Prayer is talking with God. It's the live relationship where you discover his will. You know his will as you test it against your knowledge of him. If it is inconsistent with accepted (by you) knowledge then it's not him.
How do you know that you are testing His will against your knowledge of Him in the first place? And how do you know whether your accepted knowledge is consistent or inconsistent with Him?
And since we're talking knowledge, if knowledge is required, how is that faith-based?
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Re: RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 5:25 pm
(October 31, 2012 at 4:52 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: 1. How do you know that you are testing His will against your knowledge of Him in the first place? 2. And how do you know whether your accepted knowledge is consistent or inconsistent with Him?
3. And since we're talking knowledge, if knowledge is required, how is that faith-based?
1. Wha?
2. Since the accepted knowledge is something you've ascribed to as accurate; that question is redundant.
3. The specifics of faith haven't changed since we last discussed it.
I trust information to be true and act upon it. Information > Trust > Acceptance
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 5:34 pm
What did you not understand about my first point (point "1")?
As for point "2", I'm saying that how do you know that your accepted knowledge of your experience is consistent with your idea of God? How does it validate it?
And what information do you consider trustworthy for belief in God?
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 5:39 pm
You guys made some good points.
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 5:40 pm
Oh, we've been beating up on Frods for years. He's far from the worst of the lot.
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RE: When you prayed did it ever work?
October 31, 2012 at 11:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2012 at 12:07 am by Drich.)
(October 31, 2012 at 4:12 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: He was talking about your bias, not God's bias. You are biased towards counting the hits and ignoring the misses. Maybe, just maybe, if you didn't do that you wouldn't believe in God in the first place.
If 8 times out of 10 you got shocked when you turned on a given light switch, would it be your belief that the next time you turn on the switch even though 2 times out of 10 you did not get shocked? Or would the 'hits' preveil over the 'misses?"
(October 31, 2012 at 4:16 pm)Faith No More Wrote: So, how is it possible for someone to "turn their back on the cross" when they don't believe the deity involved exists in the first place? Am I turning my back just by denying its existence?
You out of everyone here know how you can have assureance of the existance of God. All you need is the Smallest amount of faith to simply ask, seek and knock, as He has taken the time to outline in Luke 11, and God will open the gates of heaven to you and give you what you are looking for. Because you will not humble yourself to God, you are turning your back on what He has offered you in the way of the 'proof' you know you need.
(October 31, 2012 at 4:33 pm)Faith No More Wrote: So, how do you compensate for your own bias when determining whether you're actually talking to god?
The sheep know the Shepard's voice. When God speaks or directs 'we' know. We know where our knoweledge and wisdom end. Wisdom or direction beyond our ablity to give or offer (when it aligns with scripture) it comes from God.
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