The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus

[Kousbroek]

"gods" =/= God

Darn ... i always thought it was E = m . c2

[Rayaan]

Still haven't had a chance to watch the video, but I think Romans 9:5 states the divinity of Christ pretty clearly "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." (ESV)

Jesus was "God over all" most possibly means that he was a "God" in the sense of being a "judge over all (people)." Romans 9:5 says:

"To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen."

The word "god" in Hebrew used to have two different meanings: The first is the singular "God." The other is the generic "god" (or oftentimes "gods").

In the Hebrew language, the nobles, princes, judges and civil magistrates were sometimes called "gods" ("elohim").

Jesus was also a "god" because was given all the authority to rule over his people and to instruct them in accordance to the Scripture. Jesus as "God" in Romans 9:5 was used in a generic sense of the word (meaning a "judge"), not the one and only singular "God." It doesn't say "Jesus is God," but rather, it says that he was "God over all." And in that same verse, it mentions the patriarchs (those who ruled over others), and so that is another reason why the word "God" in reference to Jesus was meant to signify the authority that he was given over all the people - in other words, he was a judge over all people - as mentioned elsewhere in the Bible:

"Then Jesus came to them and said 'All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)

"For the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son." (John 5:22).

This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

http://www.gotquestions.org/you-are-gods.html

The word [theos, 'god' or 'God'] is used of Divinely appointed judges in Israel, as representing God in His authority, John 10:34.

- W. E. Vine, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, p. 491

Jesus was referred to as a Son of God and he was also a "god" (or a "judge") per Psalm 82:6 because he, as a Son of God, had all the authority to instruct his people in order to carry out the commandments of God that were revealed to him.

"I said, Ye are gods, and all of you sons of the Most High. Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes." (Psalm 82:6-7).

This is explained below:

The reason why judges are called ‘gods’ in Ps. 82 is that they have the office of administering God’s judgment as ‘sons of the Most High’. In context of the Ps. the men in question have failed to do this…. On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a ‘god’ and ‘son of the Most High’.

- The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986. Vol. 3, p. 187

"Gods" used as "judges" can also be found in Exodus 12:12 and Psalm 82:1:
http://bible.cc/exodus/12-12.htm
http://bible.cc/psalms/82-1.htm


Kousbroek, this whole post addresses your comment as well.

[Kousbroek]

Kousbroek, this whole post addresses your comment as well.

I see what you meant by it now thank you, but because you wrote it down as an equation i answered with one that has more meaning to me than yours ( i'm a lost sole when it comes to religion ) not intended to make fun of you though.

[ronedee]

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Hebrews 10:20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,

The idea is, that there is by means both of the veil of the temple, and of the body of Jesus, a medium of access to God. God dwelt in the most holy place in the Hebrew temple behind the veil by visible symbols(which tears top to bottom upon Christ's death), and was to be approached by removing the veil. And God dwells in heaven, in the most holy place there, and is to be approached only through the offering of the body of Christ.

The flesh is meant to die with our sinful nature(that we freely chose). But our spirits "can chose" to live on in the divine nature of God!

As much sense as this makes to us...this is a leap of [Faith]! So, what can a Christian offer a person w/o faith?

[Minimalist]

but I think Romans 9:5 states the divinity of Christ pretty clearly

And why do you think that is particularly impressive?


The Iliad names Athena, Aphrodite, Hera, Apollo, Poseidon, Artemis,
and Hermes as divinities. My bet is that you don't agree.

[Justtristo]

I agree with Margaret Barker that a lot of the old Israelite polytheism survived into New Testament times. This belief system rejected the strict monotheism of the priestly caste and considered Yahweh the "second god" who was the son of Elyon (The God Most High). Also Yahweh's consort Asherah in this belief system was the personified wisdom.

I would also agree with Margaret Barker that this belief system influenced profoundly Hellenistic Judaism, Gnosticism and Christianity. Actually it is not a big stretch seeing this belief system evolve into the concept of the trinity.

Therefore I would believe to people who started Christianity, Jesus was a personification of Yahweh, who was the son of the God most high (Elyon). My reading of the Gospel of John and the Pauline Epistles shows that the writers subscribed to that belief system in some form, I have described above.

However the Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke have a different christology, which considered Jesus either was a righteous man who was adopted as god's son or a demigod like Hercules.

[Minimalist]

Hercules was waaayyy cooler.

[Rayaan]

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

That means that Jesus only acted as an intermediary between God and his people and that's why he said "No one comes to the Father except through me." And "I am the way and the truth and the life" basically means that the only way to come to the Father was by following Jesus' teachings. That doesn't mean that he was God.

There is another verse that tells Christians to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, but not to Jesus:

John 16:23-24: "In that day you will not ask me for anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you anything you ask for in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy will be the fullest possible joy."

http://www.heartlight.org/wjd/john/1018-wjd.html

Hebrews 10:20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,

I think you are really stretching it if you interpret that to mean that Jesus is God.

The idea is, that there is by means both of the veil of the temple, and of the body of Jesus, a medium of access to God. God dwelt in the most holy place in the Hebrew temple behind the veil by visible symbols(which tears top to bottom upon Christ's death), and was to be approached by removing the veil. And God dwells in heaven, in the most holy place there, and is to be approached only through the offering of the body of Christ.

I didn't understand that verse entirely, but it seems that what it implies is that the offering of the body of Christ and the tearing of the temple (the Tabernacle?) was somehow a medium of access to God, the Father. Even assuming that is true, your implication that Jesus is God still doesn't follow from that as far as I understand.

The flesh is meant to die with our sinful nature(that we freely chose). But our spirits "can chose" to live on in the divine nature of God!

That doesn't that mean Jesus is God, though. And see my comments above.

Plus, a verse that asserts that Jesus was a human:

"There is one God and one way human beings can reach God. That way is through Christ Jesus, who is himself human." (1 Timothy 2:5)

As much sense as this makes to us...this is a leap of [Faith]! So, what can a Christian offer a person w/o faith?

I agree that this is a leap of faith ... I made this thread only to analyze the interpretations of some of the verses that Christians use in order to show that Jesus himself is God and to see for myself whether or not that belief is Biblically demonstrable.

[Minimalist]

[smax]

The Bible is one of most ambiguous collection of books in all of literature. It's filled with numerous contradictions. That is why there are literally thousands of denominations within the Christian faith.