Why do christians think god communicates with warm fuzzy feelings instead of direct verbal speach?

[The Grand Nudger]

What weight did you assign to your conversations with this ghost in any of these decisions? Would you have left your wife if the ghost said it was kosher? Would you not have done the mission bit if the ghost hadn't suggested it? Are your answers to me your own..or are you simply relaying a message for this ghost? What about the new church appealed to the ghost, upon what suggestion was it recommended (or what didn't the ghost like about the old one)? Is the ghost an effective business manager, and what sort of ownership stake does this ghost have in whatever business you're managing?

More importantly. How old were you when you began to have conversations with this ghost (and what were the circumstances of that first conversation)? Do you hear the ghost on your left, your right, or in stereo (interior or exterior of course- interior I assume would be synonymous to stereo)...and is the voice masculine or feminine? Is there anyone else in your family that has these sorts of conversations (or your circle of friends)? When this ghost speaks, are you generally alone, or have you had conversations-in-public. Did anyone else overhear that conversation, if so, whom? If not, why not (in your estimation)?

[pocaracas]

Rythm, either I'm very mistaken, or he's going to tell you that the ghost made it so the message reached his consciousness, bypassing all sensory input.
In other words: the messages from this ghost popped into his head.

These messages have been popping in that head for quite a while. Saying this and that... but they never popped before he started to A/S/K for them, so, in some way, his mind was expecting some message from somewhere. And it got it.
Drich's reasoning then assumed the message was originating in a ghost... a very particular ghost, since he had A/S/K'ed it to.

[Faith No More]

If it is a question or a spiritual matter I am working through I can get a sermon on the radio to speak directly towards it, or can even get a direct revelation. Meaning that I won't know what to do or say and then just know something beyond my scope, that fits the situation or problem perfectly.

Then their are dreams/visions, and of course the angel/messenger story you guys seem to love so much. But I would say the great majority comes from simply being connected with a strong fellowship of believers and allowing God to work or give direction from with in the group.

What is your criteria for determining natural phenomena from that of divine origin?

[The Grand Nudger]

Rythm, either I'm very mistaken, or he's going to tell you that the ghost made it so the message reached his consciousness, bypassing all sensory input.
In other words: the messages from this ghost popped into his head.

These messages have been popping in that head for quite a while. Saying this and that... but they never popped before he started to A/S/K for them, so, in some way, his mind was expecting some message from somewhere. And it got it.
Drich's reasoning then assumed the message was originating in a ghost... a very particular ghost, since he had A/S/K'ed it to.

No, no no.....because that sounds a whole hell of alot like "fuzzy feelings"...not a conversation. I don't care who the ghost is or where it comes from, I'm just thrilled to be talking with someone who speaks to ghosts. I'm interested in how it's all handled, and how Drich leverages these conversations.

[Drich]

[quote='Rhythm' pid='367091' dateline='1354116715']
[quote]What weight did you assign to your conversations with this ghost in any of these decisions? [/quote]I based my life around what was said. I took risks that I woould have NEVER taken and I stuck out hard times when every fiber of my being told me to run.

[quote]Would you have left your wife if the ghost said it was kosher? [/quote]If you found out your wife lied to you about a 250 dollar aday Herion habbit wouldn't you run? Or would you stick out 6 years of recovery, with all the perks of daily shouting matches, bi-weekly meetings, court dates, trying to get back your stuff from various pawn shops? I was on my way out the door. I had my final fight, and told her to pack her crap I had enough. This was the cloest thing I had to actually hearing a voice in a room by myself. I was shown all of my sin and transgressions against God, and then was given a parable to read. (The story of the unmerciful servant) After which I submitted my will to that of God and simply asked that I be given more strength to cope with all of the daily challenges of trying to manage a business and deal with my wife. He did.

[quote]Would you not have done the mission bit if the ghost hadn't suggested it?[/quote]No. I Didn't like being reminded of how poor some people are, and how much I had.(Living with my parents at the time) Plus I knew alot of them stink, and are sticky for some reason, and I did not like the idea of 'serving' people who were in a position to only take. (It only took 10 years for me to get over that stuff.)

[quote] Are your answers to me your own..or are you simply relaying a message for this ghost? [/quote]Some are some aren't. I can't tell you which is which now it all seems to blend together, but if you want, and if I am given anything new that i did not know before I will say so. (I've done this in the past)

[quote] What about the new church appealed to the ghost, upon what suggestion was it recommended (or what didn't the ghost like about the old one)?[/quote]'The Ghost' did like going to the old Chruch and rarly showed up anymore. I was told if God doesn't go to a given church then neither did I.

Actually The doctrine of the church became less about scripture and more like the personal rantings of a legalistic preacher.

So while attending I turned to the radio of eddfication. I found a preacher that taught straight from the bible and prayed that I be allowed to move to where this congergation was located. Instead God had them open a church 30 mins from my house..

[quote] Is the ghost an effective business manager, and what sort of ownership stake does this ghost have in whatever business you're managing?[/quote]I think we get 25 to 30% and He takes the rest.

[quote]More importantly. How old were you when you began to have conversations with this ghost (and what were the circumstances of that first conversation)? [/quote]
I was maybe 20 when I got to goto Hell. 21 or 22 when the angel thing happened... Not really sure.

[quote]Is there anyone else in your family that has these sorts of conversations (or your circle of friends)? When this ghost speaks, are you generally alone, or have you had conversations-in-public. Did anyone else overhear that conversation, if so, whom? If not, why not (in your estimation)?[/quote]

Do you really think you are a measure or the standard of how God can and will communicate to us? Truthfully if my experiences with God were the same as the silence you know i probably believe what you believe. But, it's not. I have said from the beginning A/S/K and God will give you Exactly what you need to establish and maintain your faith. This is what I need. you may need more or you may need less. That is why not everyone gets the same attention. again I got what i need to accomplish the things given to me to accomplishh.

[The Grand Nudger]

I based my life around what was said. I took risks that I woould have NEVER taken and I stuck out hard times when every fiber of my being told me to run.

So, it would be fair to say, that this ghost has such an influence over you that it can make decisions for you, or compel you to continue in a course of action which terrifies you?

If you found out your wife lied to you about a 250 dollar aday Herion habbit wouldn't you run? Or would you stick out 6 years of recovery, with all the perks of daily shouting matches, bi-weekly meetings, court dates, trying to get back your stuff from various pawn shops? I was on my way out the door. I had my final fight, and told her to pack her crap I had enough. This was the cloest thing I had to actually hearing a voice in a room by myself. I was shown all of my sin and transgressions against God, and then was given a parable to read. (The story of the unmerciful servant) After which I submitted my will to that of God and simply asked that I be given more strength to cope with all of the daily challenges of trying to manage a business and deal with my wife. He did.

Me? Probably not. You didn't run, and though you credit a ghostly voice for this is it so hard to imagine that another would have their own (entirely dissimilar) reasons for staying? Some do, some don't...why a person does either could be any number of things.

No. I Didn't like being reminded of how poor some people are, and how much I had.(Living with my parents at the time) Plus I knew alot of them stink, and are sticky for some reason, and I did not like the idea of 'serving' people who were in a position to only take. (It only took 10 years for me to get over that stuff.)

So again we see an entity capable of compelling you to do things you do not want to do.

Some are some aren't. I can't tell you which is which now it all seems to blend together, but if you want, and if I am given anything new that i did not know before I will say so. (I've done this in the past)

Hmn, well this is troubling..you have difficulty determining where you end and the voice begins?

'The Ghost' did like going to the old Chruch and rarly showed up anymore. I was told if God doesn't go to a given church then neither did I.
Actually The doctrine of the church became less about scripture and more like the personal rantings of a legalistic preacher.

So while attending I turned to the radio of eddfication. I found a preacher that taught straight from the bible and prayed that I be allowed to move to where this congergation was located. Instead God had them open a church 30 mins from my house..

How about you, did you like the church..were you showing up regularly? I'm not certain that god is required for a religious organization to open a church somewhere Drich. I mean, there are plenty of churches opening all the time that you don't figure have anything to do with god...right?

I think we get 25 to 30% and He takes the rest.

Who do you write those checks to, or does the ghost cash them itself?

I was maybe 20 when I got to goto Hell. 21 or 22 when the angel thing happened... Not really sure.

So, late teens to early twenties. You missed the ones about the general perception of these conversations. Left, right, stereo, masculine, feminine.

Do you really think you are a measure or the standard of how God can and will communicate to us? Truthfully if my experiences with God were the same as the silence you know i probably believe what you believe. But, it's not. I have said from the beginning A/S/K and God will give you Exactly what you need to establish and maintain your faith. This is what I need. you may need more or you may need less. That is why not everyone gets the same attention. again I got what i need to accomplish the things given to me to accomplishh.

Since when was this about me? I don't have conversations with ghosts. You've set -yourself- up as a standard..the only standard I'm aware of. I'm just asking you how you perceive these communications. I appreciate that you're attempting to understand why I don't believe (but to be truthful, whether or not I had a conversation with a ghostly voice isn't going to make me a christian Drich - it would have a similarly marginal effect on whether or not I believed in gods or ghosts). Why did this thread turn into your favorite sermon again? I didn't ask you how I could speak to your ghost, I asked you what your experience was like. I don't need faith, so maybe god doesn't speak to me because others need attention in ways that I don't, and he's a busy man. Perhaps god doesn't give me anything because I require no divine gifts or favors to accomplish goals. All of this, is of course, irrelevant with regards to a description of your experiences. If it was something you didn't want to share that's fine (but it's probably not possible for me to refrain from asking questions like these....curiosity you know, once it's been brought up). Otherwise.....you're relating this experience in earnest, are you not? You would appreciate it if I took you seriously, would you not? Well, if any of that is going to happen there will have to be just a smidgeon of reciprocation Drich.

[Drich]

So, it would be fair to say, that this ghost has such an influence over you that it can make decisions for you, or compel you to continue in a course of action which terrifies you?

yup

Me? Probably not.

I hope you never have to find out.

You didn't run, and though you credit a ghostly voice for this is it so hard to imagine that another would have their own (entirely dissimilar) reasons for staying?

Loyality/love will buy time for a while but everyone has their breaking point. The question was would you/they stay beyond that breaking point?

So again we see an entity capable of compelling you to do things you do not want to do.

Yes like showing compassioning and opening my heart to love when it is not in my nature to do so.

Hmn, well this is troubling..you have difficulty determining where you end and the voice begins?

I can't go back to pervious posts and tell you what I already knew, and what I learned on 95% of the day to day stuff. (Just forgot, as it all blends together.) The bigger topics like Hell, I know was beyond my comperhension when I learned of it.

How about you, did you like the church..

I went their for 15 years, it were I did most of my ministry. all of my friends were there. It's where I met my wife, where I was married and where I thought I would die. But things change, and it became a question of who do you love more God, or the church/method of worship?

were you showing up regularly?

3 times a week.

I'm not certain that god is required for a religious organization to open a church somewhere Drich. I mean, there are plenty of churches opening all the time that you don't figure have anything to do with god...right?

There are 3 times as many church currently closing in the states than their are churches opening. This was a small religious movement based out of chicago. Their were/are only a few dozen of these churches just now beginning to spring up. to have one come here is all God.

Who do you write those checks to, or does the ghost cash them itself?

both.

Since when was this about me? I don't have conversations with ghosts. You've set -yourself- up as a standard..the only standard I'm aware of. I'm just asking you how you perceive these communications. I appreciate that you're attempting to understand why I don't believe (but to be truthful, whether or not I had a conversation with a ghostly voice isn't going to make me a christian Drich - it would have a similarly marginal effect on whether or not I believed in gods or ghosts). Why did this thread turn into your favorite sermon again? I didn't ask you how I could speak to your ghost, I asked you what your experience was like. I don't need faith, so maybe god doesn't speak to me because others need attention in ways that I don't, and he's a busy man. Perhaps god doesn't give me anything because I require no divine gifts or favors to accomplish goals. All of this, is of course, irrelevant with regards to a description of your experiences. If it was something you didn't want to share that's fine (but it's probably not possible for me to refrain from asking questions like these....curiosity you know, once it's been brought up). Otherwise.....you're relating this experience in earnest, are you not? You would appreciate it if I took you seriously, would you not? Well, if any of that is going to happen there will have to be just a smidgeon of reciprocation Drich.

fair enough

[The Grand Nudger]

yup

Can you imagine a situation in which that might be troubling?

Loyality/love will buy time for a while but everyone has their breaking point. The question was would you/they stay beyond that breaking point?

Why is that the question? I mean sure, I've had moments in my life where I felt like I was at point break...but I kept trucking along anyway, so clearly I was wrong about that.....and it looks like you kept trucking along as well. Again, you credit a ghost for that "second wind"...others may find it elsewhere.

Yes like showing compassioning and opening my heart to love when it is not in my nature to do so.

All well and good (sort of, I suppose.....). You don't feel that compassion and being open to love is in your nature? You are the same person who did inner city missions and stuck with a drug addled wife..are you not? You're telling me a narrative about your life that doesn't really match up with your self assessment. It might surprise you to know that this is a common occurence. Many of us imagine ourselves to be less of (or more of) "whatever". I would wonder why you feel that you require a ghostly force capable of compelling you - against your will- to accomplish these two things that, to me and many others...come as easily as breathing (I'd also add, that I don't actually think you needed anything beyond yourself at all..chances are compassion and love are well within the range of things you call your nature - no ghosts required).

I can't go back to pervious posts and tell you what I already knew, and what I learned on 95% of the day to day stuff. (Just forgot, as it all blends together.) The bigger topics like Hell, I know was beyond my comperhension when I learned of it.

If something is beyond your comprehension..you could not comprehend it, by definition Drich. Here again you seem to have made a mistake with what regards to what you consider yourself capable of.

I went their for 15 years, it were I did most of my ministry. all of my friends were there. It's where I met my wife, where I was married and where I thought I would die. But things change, and it became a question of who do you love more God, or the church/method of worship?

A question? So in this case you had some say in the matter, whereas in (at least one of )the previous two cases you did not?

There are 3 times as many church currently closing in the states than their are churches opening. This was a small religious movement based out of chicago. Their were/are only a few dozen of these churches just now beginning to spring up. to have one come here is all God.

This response has nothing to do with what I asked you, nothing at all. You mentioned that it was a radio program, right? Is it surprising that a church opened a branch within it's radio broadcast range? I mean, I don't actually care whether or not you think god is currently in your church, that's your business. I'm just trying to help you see why the notion that "god made them" open a church is less than compelling...and I half-expected you to appreciate that I was doing so from within the structure of your own beliefs. Other churches, of other faiths (which have nothing to do with god)..open all the time, all over the world. God isn't required in those cases, he doesn't "make them" do it. I don't think you're going to find gods name on any of the funds that went into establishing this new church, you won't find god as the purchasing agent, you won't find god listed on the deed, lease, title......the business of opening a church is an earthly one. There's nothing compellingly divine about putting a cross on a building (and even you don't see it as such - except, here, in your -special case-..apparently). This is laying aside that it's plainly obvious that you somehow feel that this was done for your benefit. A veritable personal miracle and direct experience with the almighty-by way of a real estate transaction....... An even stranger notion.

both.

Both what? Should I rephrase? What is the name of the ghost (what name do you write the check out to) and where does it cash those checks (what bank?) You would have very easy access to both of these pieces of information..unless you're actually being disingenuos with me...which I'm starting to suspect that you are. No money is changing hands between you and a ghost, is it? Similarly, you declined to answer any of my questions in an earlier post about the particulars of your "conversations" with this ghost. I'm starting to think that you don't have conversations with a ghost at all, that you have fuzzy feelings. This would be disappointing. You see, in the same way that you seem to have misjudged yourself, you've misjudged me. My hostility to ideas like this has everything to do with a wide eyed curiosity, and how dependably this curiosity is shit upon by people who claim to have seen a ghost, spoken to a ghost - and then turn out to have been bullshitting me...from the word go - and I can't even imagine a situation or circumstance that lets me give them the benefit of the doubt. They knew what they were doing, going in. I think you did to, in this conversation.

[Drich]

Can you imagine a situation in which that might be troubling?

Yes, it would be troubling if God was not present.

All well and good (sort of, I suppose.....). You don't feel that compassion and being open to love is in your nature? You are the same person who did inner city missions and stuck with a drug addled wife..are you not?

I grew up being picked on severly by the black people at my schools. I wasn't white enough for the other whites to watch out for me, nor was I 'yellow' enough to hang out with the asian kids. But I was white enough to be blamed and beaten for every white on black problem the school had. As a result wanted Absolutly nothing to do with Any black people for any reason. Then after i went to this church for a while I met my new best friend (and best man at my wedding) and then was dragged into this ministry where my whole outlook changed (over the course of 10 years) Then I picked up a new hatred (junkies) then God made me face that. (I did not meet my wife till after the inner city thing)

You're telling me a narrative about your life that doesn't really match up with your self assessment. It might surprise you to know that this is a common occurence. Many of us imagine ourselves to be less of (or more of) "whatever". I would wonder why you feel that you require a ghostly force capable of compelling you - against your will- to accomplish these two things that, to me and many others...come as easily as breathing (I'd also add, that I don't actually think you needed anything beyond yourself at all..chances are compassion and love are well within the range of things you call your nature - no ghosts required).

This maybe true, but before i Gave myself to god i can honestly say i hated black people and wanted nothing to do with them. And then I can honestly say I hated theiving junkies (From all that I saw go down in the innercity outreach, crack children, death, destruction and stuff I do not like talking about anymore) and all of the self centered crap they do and the lives they wreck. It wasn't till after the last 6 years did I learn to stop hating people (So God would stop making me face my own bigoted heart.)

As a former bigot I know people do not change simply because they feel they need to. their needs to be a catylist. the deeper/stronger the feeling of hate, the stronger the catylist needs to be. For me it was God. (Not through the fear of Hell, but through the need to be in that love i felt for an instant.)

If something is beyond your comprehension..you could not comprehend it, by definition Drich. Here again you seem to have made a mistake with what regards to what you consider yourself capable of.

Let look at my understanding of Hell and what I mean beyond my comperhension. I understood Hell to be what I saw paintings of in our family bible. (Which were taken from some of the senes of Dante's Infrno. a Literal lake of Fire where demons and the devil rule. Their purpose was to torment the condemned. I had no knoweledge of what gnashing of teeth was and often thought what is so bad about that, nor did i have any understanding of how the Jewish account of Sheol and Hell were different nor would I even be able to phathom how to reconsile the two.

One little "dream" later, and i have an understanding that I am just now after 15/20 years of off and on study can biblically support. My comperhension of Hell went from the typical sunday school interpertation to being able to tie all of the various biblical accounts to what I experienced. That what I mean by comperhend. I had no understanding one day, and the next could teach on the subject in a biblically supported (again un-beknown to me at the time) way that i have never heard before.

A question? So in this case you had some say in the matter, whereas in (at least one of )the previous two cases you did not?

Say in what matter?

This response has nothing to do with what I asked you, nothing at all. You mentioned that it was a radio program, right? Is it surprising that a church opened a branch within it's radio broadcast range? I mean, I don't actually care whether or not you think god is currently in your church, that's your business. I'm just trying to help you see why the notion that "god made them" open a church is less than compelling...and I half-expected you to appreciate that I was doing so from within the structure of your own beliefs. Other churches, of other faiths (which have nothing to do with god)..open all the time, all over the world. God isn't required in those cases, he doesn't "make them" do it. I don't think you're going to find gods name on any of the funds that went into establishing this new church, you won't find god as the purchasing agent, you won't find god listed on the deed, lease, title......the business of opening a church is an earthly one. There's nothing compellingly divine about putting a cross on a building (and even you don't see it as such - except, here, in your -special case-..apparently). This is laying aside that it's plainly obvious that you somehow feel that this was done for your benefit. A veritable personal miracle and direct experience with the almighty-by way of a real estate transaction....... An even stranger notion.

The point of my statement was that is was an answer to a petition I placed before God. More so to the point the Church leaders said the were 'lead to open a church in Orlando.' Was it open just for me? No, there are 1100 other people who benefit from this church as well.

Both what? Should I rephrase? What is the name of the ghost (what name do you write the check out to) and where does it cash those checks (what bank?) You would have very easy access to both of these pieces of information..unless you're actually being disingenuos with me...which I'm starting to suspect that you are.

It varies from the church, to various charitiable organaztions to indivisuals, or back into the business we are tasked to maintain.

No money is changing hands between you and a ghost, is it?

Physically? no. The 'Ghost' is involved in various outreaches and we fund those ministries, and support the business as funds are avaiable. If a need is great enough and even if we do not have the money to give we will (on blind faith) write a check that gets the 'ghost' covers. One way or another.

Similarly, you declined to answer any of my questions in an earlier post about the particulars of your "conversations" with this ghost. I'm starting to think that you don't have conversations with a ghost at all, that you have fuzzy feelings.

Actually i posted a link (or at least mentioned) my last direct conversation in the thread Messenger/Message. (which you participated in) I also mentioned radio broadcasts that are direct answers to spiritual questions I had, and also said that 90% of all direction comes from being plugged into a Christ centered Church.

This would be disappointing. You see, in the same way that you seem to have misjudged yourself, you've misjudged me. My hostility to ideas like this has everything to do with a wide eyed curiosity, and how dependably this curiosity is shit upon by people who claim to have seen a ghost, spoken to a ghost - and then turn out to have been bullshitting me...from the word go - and I can't even imagine a situation or circumstance that lets me give them the benefit of the doubt. They knew what they were doing, going in. I think you did to, in this conversation.

.. and i think you dismissed my answers and wound up tipping your hand too early. In that my answers weren't allowing you to come to the conclusion you are trying to force on me now. So you had to ignore or 'forget' what was said in hope to unseat me from what you think is BS. If you want to reset and try again your more than welcome to try, but know you will find consistancy here as what I am telling you is the truth.


Another side question. If you are trying to seperate true accounts/happenings from make believe, what are you trying to hang me on a technicality? you claim you wanted an example of my speaking to the holy Spirit, and I gave you several, but then you try and reassign my experience as anything but or in one case ignored it completely? all just to feign 'honest curisoity." It seems the only thing your courious about is to how dispell accounts as to how God is working in peoples lives.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

This maybe true, but before i Gave myself to god i can honestly say i hated black people and wanted nothing to do with them.

I appreciate your honesty, but come on...did you need god for that?