Why do you believe?

[pocaracas]

I have thought about going to hospitals. But to be honest I get a bit nervous about it. What I have done recently is to put posts on forums where people are sick,in the sickness section, asking if they would like prayer. Then if any one says yes I pray. I also pray when I meet sick people.

So instead of healing people face to face, you choose to do it at a safe distance... For the few that come back claiming they got better, you score a point.... the rest, tough luck, right?

as an example I have a friend who has done the following things, after he sought God for 30 days without eating:


A 6 month old baby who was about to have his life support turned off due to the fact his kidneys were severely defective. Healed instantly.

A who was involved in a car accident and suffered irreparable brain damage, healed even though he was 20 kilometers away as we prayed with his wife. Plus her frozen shoulder was healed and her arm grew again back to the size it was before the accident 15 years prior.

A adult male healed of paraplegia after being unable to walk for 21 years.

A 62 year old lady singer healed of a brain tumor in New Zealand.

A 70 year old lady healed of a broken back.

A 65 year old gold coast lady healed of osteoporosis, hadn’t walked in 3 years.

A 28 year old gold coast male healed of an arm which had been fused together and told he “would never rotate it again”

You can talk to him at http://shiloh.org.au

It's always a friend....
Always someone else...
Always!
Always!
Claims are cheap.
Facts are hard to come by.

Miraculous double kidney formation: pics or it didn't happen.
Miraculous arm growing back: : pics or it didn't happen.
Miraculous fused bone defusing: pics or it didn't happen.
Tumors heal "miraculously" all the time... I guess they're not miracles anymore...

Gullibility makes you believe him...
The fact that you think you heal others helps feed such gullibility.

[median]

I hope you look with care at each thing I have provided. To see they are not thunder and lightning experiences, with out reason or meaning. Every miracle that I mentioned, was a direct answer to prayer, with a testable result.

Asking God to open up the whole bible to a single verse of my choosing, is a miracle, approximately a 1/54000 chance. It is not just I opened the bible and a verse "felt good", "made me believe", I asked specifically for a verse of scripture, and it opened to that verse, the verse I asked it to be opened to.

Or the story I told you about the man who had been stabled, God asked me audiably before I met him "How would "I" like to be stabbed". A day before I met the man God asked me a question about him.

God once told me a famous Australian would die (in a very vivid vision), Steve Erwin. He died shortly after. God has told me the future numerous times.

But the thing is you have to start with faith, I never saw a miracle until I actually performed them my self. The first healing I ever saw was one of my own prayers being answered. God wants us to respond to things people tell us. We all have choices to make in life, you choose to reason away my examples of answered prayer, and reports of the miraculous. Which for me to lie has no gain for me. I don't make a living from preaching to people, I have a job that I enjoy, and I have no desire to be a minister, so money is not my goal as is often the accusation. Surely there is no point in deceiving you into becoming a Christian. What would it gain me. Ask anybody who knows me, visit Christian sites I frequent like christianforums.com and you will see I don't teach give me cash, I don't manipulate the people I talk to, I try my best to build their lives up in God. If I am delusional and really believe in God, the bible tells me not to lie, so in fear of God I would not lie. I plead with you to not be hasty in your judgments, don't judge by the standards you are used to, think slowly and carefully about all I have showed you. And consider there may well be a God. Not a God of violence, hate and rage, but one who as the bible says "does not delight in the death of the wicked", "is long suffering not willing that any perish", that "God is Love", who teaches us to "Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you", if we are to love those who hate us, surely God loves those who hate him. You are probably not a God hater, just used to human ideas. Become used to God ideas, God is not in a box, he is not testable, but he is knowable. One thing you can be assured of if you become a Christian, and are genuine, you will experience God.

Amo 5:14 If you really want to live, you must stop doing wrong and start doing right. I, the LORD God All-Powerful, will then be on your side

The funniest part of this post is that I used to say the very same things to non-believers when I was a Christian (20+ years). What you are talking about is Confirmation Bias, which was demonstrated quite clearly by the statement you JUST made above saying, "But the thing is you have to start with faith." But this is an equivocation because by "faith" you are actually talking about BELIEF - which is practiced by nearly every religion on the planet. "Just believe and only then, you'll see stuff." That is absurd b/c belief is not a choice. It is a reaction to being convinced (rationally or irrationally). How can you know that "God is not testable" if you have (indeed) tested him and got results that you WANTED? How about all the times that you 'tested' and didn't get anything? How about those that prayed on 9/11 and still burned to death in Tower II of the World Trade Centers?

What you are saying is completely indistinguishable from Astrology or New Age Mysticism. They all say the same thing. "You can't test it but we know it's true." No, you don't know it's true. YOU BELIEVE. You have faith. And that faith stems from the fact that you FIRST accepted the bible (uncritically), just like Muslims do with their book, AND THEN...you went about seeking confirmation. That is backwards, and quite hypocritical because it is inconsistent with the way we live our practical lives. Would you "believe first" a salesman at the door selling magic potion?

Just like all the other religions, you STARTED with a conclusion and then sought to defend it, instead of starting with an open, rational, and critical mind.

p.s. - Thunder and lightening experiences have (and had) both reason AND meaning. But gullible superstitious people (who practiced CREDULITY) jumped to the supernatural (intellectual laziness) instead of admitting they did not know the cause (just as you are doing here). How about amputees!?

[Darkstar]

You said:
A adult male healed of paraplegia after being unable to walk for 21 years.

A 62 year old lady singer healed of a brain tumor in New Zealand.

A 70 year old lady healed of a broken back.

A 65 year old gold coast lady healed of osteoporosis, hadn’t walked in 3 years.

A 28 year old gold coast male healed of an arm which had been fused together and told he “would never rotate it again”

Is this with or without medical intervention?
"I prayed to get better, and then went to the doctor. I got better. Must have been the prayer!"

[Simon Moon]

A who was involved in a car accident and suffered irreparable brain damage, healed even though he was 20 kilometers away as we prayed with his wife. Plus her frozen shoulder was healed and her arm grew again back to the size it was before the accident 15 years prior.

A adult male healed of paraplegia after being unable to walk for 21 years.

A 62 year old lady singer healed of a brain tumor in New Zealand.

A 70 year old lady healed of a broken back.

A 65 year old gold coast lady healed of osteoporosis, hadn’t walked in 3 years.

A 28 year old gold coast male healed of an arm which had been fused together and told he “would never rotate it again”

You can talk to him at http://shiloh.org.au

When will people understand that anecdotal evidence is meaningless.

Especially if there is nothing about these 'miracle' healings that would be verifiable by medical science. Never once a write up in a medical journal.

[Minimalist]

Shiloh baptist in Australia, huh?

Very convincing, dickhead.

Go Blow Jesus Out Your Ass

[FutureAndAHope]

You said:

How about amputees!?

Amputees have been healed by certain church ministers. But like I said it does not happen all the time. If it happened all the time we would get too proud and think we know everything about God. A Christian must be proved faithful to see even one miracle, to see many you need to be really in touch with God. Few Christian see miracles, I once asked on a Christian forum how many of you have experienced the miraculous. There were no replies. Yet I have met many miracle workers, who have seen miracles, and have experienced it myself.

The truth is that your sin keeps you from believing, you want your sin lifestyle more than God. If you were genuinely interested in the truth, the things I discuss on my website at http://www.futureandahope.net could cause you to change your minds, and see God does communicate with people. Or you could also go to that site at http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn_eng/case/divine_case_e.asp and see documented cases of divine healing, yes with photos etc. I just hope you don't sin yourselves into hell, God does allow lies and the devil to separate those who want to do evil. But he also gives all of us truth. Do you want me too go away with my stories of the miraculous and leave you too wait for some well meaning Christian who knows nothing but words from a book, so you can use you firm belief in evolution, or contradictions from the bible, to deceive him, and say "now lying", I have seen no proof, I have heard nothing, it is all just coincidence. Choose this day to be a son of hell, destined for eternal life, or choose to open your heart to God. God wants you saved, but if you want sin more than friendship with God, he is not merciful.

[Annik]

What kind of crazy did I just trip over?


Provide evidence for people growing back severed limbs.

[Faith No More]

All these claims of disappearing tumors and fixed back problems are extremely unimpressive. You want to wow me with your miraculous healing powers? I want to see you reassemble and reanimate someone that was dismembered and killed in a car crash. Then I would consider that you're onto something with this whole god causing healing miracles thing.

---

The truth is that your sin keeps you from believing, you want your sin lifestyle more than God.

Of course you say this, because admitting that you've fooled yourself would be too devastating to your ego.

[Simon Moon]

Amputees have been healed by certain church ministers. But like I said it does not happen all the time.

Let me get this straight...

Someone has a limb amputated. In any country with a reasonably advanced medical system, this would have been performed by a doctor. Even if the amputation occurred accidentally, on the job, for example, the amputee would still have visited a doctor.

Detailed records would have been kept, x-rays taken, procedures would have been performed, etc.

And yet, not a single case of an amputated limb growing back ever being recorded by any doctor in any medical journal, ever.

So, the real question is, how gullible are you?

[Cyberman]

And yet, not a single case of an amputated limb growing back ever being recorded by any doctor in any medical journal, ever.

Ah, those would be the ones that come under the "it does not happen all the time" qualifier. It only happens secretly, you see, a friend of a friend usually reads about it happening in some remote part of some foreign land. Or there'll be a YouTube video of a preacher pulling on someone's foot, not to mention the combined legs of his sheep. God moves not only in a mysterious way, but an invisible one as well. It's almost as if the old boy wasn't there, isn't it?