Destroying "atheism", God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) is a Fact

[Tobie]

The Bible(40 Different witnesses, Approx. 60 Accounts, no Contradiction, No error, Scientific Foreknowledge, Historical Foreknowledge, Scientific Accuracy, Historical Accuracy, which means whether you like it or not, these witnesses and their accounts are valid for testing in Court of Law, and as proven All Accounts are Accurate and True.)

Oh how wrong you are. There are several contradictions in the bible (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/j...tions.html) especially in the nature of the abrahamic god. I haven't seen any examples of historical/scientific foreknowledge, so please provide some (no matter how dubious, I want to see what you think counts as foreknowledge). Also, they were occasionally scientifically accurate, but about stuff that was already known at the time. As for historical accuracy, well there's the Pilate/Quirinius date mix up for a start (which would be pretty easy to fact check if the bible was written by witnesses as you claim).

Jesus Christ Resurrection is The Only Explanation of the Facts, All other theories have been disproven and rendered Impossible, leaving only One possiblity(Resurrection) which means He really Resurrected from the dead.

There has been nothing to prove that we are dealing with facts when we talk about the bible, so this bit is null and void.

The Shroud, no evidence of forgery, not a painting, has blood, x-ray like image, cannot be reproduced with any technology past or present therefore not man made/forged and is supernatural, caused by a burst of UV light from the body, crucified person who resembles Historical Jesus Christ to a tee.

It was also carbon-dated and found not to be from the time when christ was supposedly born. I also doubt it has any of the qualities given to it by you, but I can't be bothered to go and find things that say otherwise.

Already with this Jesus Christ is The Lord/God and God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit)

First Uncaused Cause(Scientific and Philosophical Fact, in otherwords overall Fact and if you deny this you must deny "macro-evolution" as this actually is a Proven Fact.)

Wishful thinking. There has been no uncaused cause proven, and by most accounts this teleological argument for god is deemed to stand on scientifically incorrect ground. There have been several threads on this topic in these forums, go find them.

An Infinite Past of Anything in Succession(Matter, Time, Space, Energy, Change, cause & effect etc) is a Impossibility. if the past was infinite we would never get to the present, count down from Infinity to zero. therefore anything in succession must have a beginning in the finite past. which means it is an indeniable Fact that once nothing existed.(evident by this and the big bang)

No one (apart from theists) have claimed the universe has or doesn't have a beginning. Current scientific knowledge says that the expansion of the universe has a beginning, but we know nothing about whether the universe had a cause. This is no reason to give it a cause i.e say goddidit because there is such a thing as common logic.

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Since infinite amount of past cause and effect is impossible it had to start, which means there is a cause which has no cause, The First Uncaused Cause.

The Cause is,

- Uncaused since has no cause

- Beginningless since if began to exist must have a cause.

-Changeless since an Infinite Amount of past change is impossible and a change requires a cause, First Uncaused Cause has no cause

- Timeless since changeless, no change, and no Time.

- Eternal since has always existed, is changeless(ceasing to exist would be a change) and is Timeless.

- Spaceless since Timeless and changeless, things in space are ever changing and are in time.

- Immaterial since Timeless and Changless, matter is ever changing, changeless material doesn't exist, and changeless material cannot cause anything, therefore Immaterial.

-All Powerful since created everything and lesser doesn't produce the greater.

- Of Which No Greater Can Be Conceived since Created Everything.

Now that was part 1,

Part 2,

3 Indeinable Facts

1, Whatever Begins to exists has a cause

2, The Universe began to exist(infinite regression is impossible, big bang, and Borde, Guide, Valienkin Theorem make this an irrefutable Fact.)

3, Therefore The Universe has a Cause to it's existence.

The Cause of The Universe is,

-Spaceless and Timeless, since Created/Started/Caused Space and Time, can therefore exist without Space and Time.

- Since Spaceless and Timeless is Changeless

-Since Changeless is Immaterial, and since doesn't change, The Cause didn't start to exist, making it The First Uncaused Cause.

The First Uncaused Cause is The Cause of The Universe.

Now time to prove that this is without a shadow of a doubt God(which means whether "macro-evolution" happened or not, God exists and you have to accept that)

1. That fits God's description to a tee.

2. The First Uncaused Cause is The Direct Cause of The Universe, God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) is a First Uncaused Cause who Directly Caused The Universe.

3, Is Immaterial therefore can either be a Mind or Abstract Object such as numbers(The Mind is immaterial and we'll get to that later), Abstract objects cause nothing, therefore a Mind.

4, Fine Tuning, The Universe is so fine tuned for life that there's only 3 possibilities as to why,

Law, Chance, or Design. Cannot be law or chance, since Law can be different and Chance is Extremely Improbable that it's Factual it didn't happen that way, therefore Obviously Designed.

5, Only 2 types of causes. Accidential/Mindless or Intentional/Mind, Accidents require a prior cause, therefore cannot be accidential therefore caused on Purpose, God exists.

6, All "naturalistic" theories are Impossible.

1, "naturalism" is disproven by The Universe being caused so by default Supernatural and Immaterial exists.

2, Nothing existed and nothing causes nothing, the "nothing causes something" Quantum Mechanics argument proposed by w-child has been thrown in the fire with these facts,

1, The Quantum Vaccum isn't empty space.

2, Nothing cannot cause something with this fact,

The Cause of an effect must be equivelent or greater than it's effect,

Nothing has no properties, something has properties. so for nothing to cause something it would need the properties to do so, so if nothing caused something, it needs to properties of something rendering it to be something instead of nothing! and if nothing caused something it would need the properties from something eternal rendering it again not nothing.

Nothing can only cause, nothing.

and the "universe caused itself" argument(whoever posed this argument needs their liscense revoked, is automatically void as if the universe caused itself it would have already needed to exist!.

And lastly as proven in #5 can only have been caused on purpose.

There is no naturalistic explanation as 1, Supernatural exist, 2, it's impossible for nothing to cause something and 3, it is an impossiblity for The First Uncaused Cause to cause on accident.

#7, Creation ex nihilo proves The Bible is even more Scientifically Accurate and Correct, Creation ex Nihilo proves God exists and God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit who is 1 God that is 3 Persons.

Dualism


1. If the mind was the brain or any material then everything we do, all thoughts, actions, plans, will, cognitive functions etc would be accidential, rendering free will nonexistent. Free Will exists therefore the mind cannot be material.

you therefore have 3 choices,

1, No Director(mind), rendering nerve signals random, which is false since we do have a mind and do direct our nerve signals, that is a fact.

2, Material Director which is false since it would be the same as no director because there would be no direction to energy signals.

3, Immaterial Director where nerve signals can be directed.

2. material is mindless, when you laugh, do your cheeks or hands, or face know what your laughing about? no, they're just a piece of meat, it knows nothing, such as your eyeballs, fingers etc.

3. Immaterial Properties exist, Love, Emotions, Abstract Objects(Numbers), Data, Feelings, Beliefs, Delusions, Fantasies, all exist, yet aren't material.

For example, what is material about the data you're reading off this sentence? Physically it's energy signals hitting your screen, now unless you say the data isn't real, then it's Immaterial.

4, Thoughts are not material, and if they are material whatever causes them cannot be material.

Think of a pink giant elephant, now if your head was cut open would we find that elephant? no. can anyone hear what you're thinking? nope, it's not material.

When you talk to someone, are you talking to a person or just flesh? if you say the latter than you might as well say you can talk to the wall and be perfectly fine.

5. Color is not material.

6, Here's an experiment, Hit your hand on the desk, feel the pain? now it is a fact that you are not your hand, if we cut off your hand and the nerves in it you would be incapable of feeling it. this means the reason you feel your hand is because of a connection to you(can be brain or Immaterial Spirit, I'm allowing both for experiment)

Now lets assume your mind is your brain as most "atheist" assume, and the brain is the connection to the hand, now if your brain is what is allowing you to feel your hand, then that is impossible, if you're your brain, when your hand gets hit, you'd feel the pain in your head, not your hand. now you cannot say the brain sending energy signals to the hand is causing the pain since you aren't your hand! we can cut it off and you won't be able to feel it anymore.

The Only Possibility is that your hand is connected to your brain and you are an Immaterial Substance that can feel the hand, otherwise there is no possiblity of feeling your hand.

7, Third, I believe it is important to note that some of the world’s foremost neuroscientists have believed that the mind is immaterial. These neuroscientists have been well aware that stimulating the brain can produce some intriguing psychological results. One of the pioneers in the field of neuroscience was Wilder Penfield. In his fascinating book The Mystery of the Mind, he writes the following:


When I have caused a conscious patient to move his hand by applying an electrode to the motor cortex of one hemisphere, I have often asked him about it. Invariably his response was: ‘I didn’t do that. You did.’ When I caused him to vocalize, he said: ‘I didn’t make that sound. You pulled it out of me.’ When I caused the record of the stream of consciousness to run again and so presented to him the record of his past experience, he marveled that he should be conscious of the past as well as of the present. He was astonished that it should come back to him so completely, with more detail than he could possibly recall voluntarily. He assumed at once that, somehow, the surgeon was responsible for the phenomenon, but he recognized the details as those of his own past experience. (76)


Penfield goes on to note that “There is no place in the cerebral cortex where electrical stimulation will cause a patient . . . to decide” (77). This is consistent with my point that choices are undetermined events with a teleological explanation. In light of his work as a neuroscientist, Penfield concludes the following: “For my own part, after years of striving to explain the mind on the basis of brain-action alone, I have come to the conclusion that it is simpler (and far easier and logical) if one adopts the hypothesis that our being does consist of two fundamental elements” (80).



Read more: God and Mind/Body Dualism | Reasonable Faith

8, Last but not least, Scientific Fact that every cell in our bodies die and regenerate with new cells, that by every 7 years we are completely new material beings. now I know I'm the same person I was in 1998, I'm the same guy who's been through 2 1/2 new material bodies already yet I'm the same mind, therefore it is a Scientific Fact that human beings are Immaterial beings/Spirits controlling material bodies.

"materialism", "atheism", "agnostics", etc are all dead already without even going into "macro-evolution.

Morality.

Morals are Immaterial Properties, under "naturalism" Immaterial wouldn't exist.

Under "naturalism", things such as rape would have no reason for being wrong and could actually be justified.

rape is Objectively Wrong, there is a reason for that. under "naturalism" there is no reason and it would be justified under "naturalism", therefore "naturalism" is fairy tales, Therefore God must Necessarily exist.

"macro-evolution"

"macro-evolution" cannot explain morals.

"macro-evolution" is impossible.

People base an assumption that multiple bouts of Micro-Evolution produces "macro", Micro means within a species. dogs evolving will only ever be, dogs.

Irreducible Complexity,

Heart, lungs, Kidney, Liver, Brain, Veins, Blood, etc take one out and everything fails, must have been given at once.

and

Darwinism Refuted.com

Apparent Design, Symmetry, and Immaterial Properties such as Data(DNA), Immune System, Apparent Design that even "atheist"/"evolutionist" don't deny!(They even say, it "just appears designed", Nothing appears Intelligently Designed Unless, Intelligently Designed, throw that logic in the fire.)

Billions of transitional fossils needed, even if fossils are hard to find as most "atheist" say, I'll allow that excuse, however under that excuse Millions are needed, still aren't a million, "macro-evolution" is false.

"macro-evolution" is incapable with "naturalism", God must exist for "macro-evolution" to happen, therefore "macro-evolution" along with the other evidence didn't happen. therefore advocates for "macro-evolution" cannot be "atheist" and if they are an "atheist"/"naturalist" then they cannot be an advocate of "macro-evolution"

With that said God Factually Exists, and God is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Time to prepare for Eternity.


Now what proof and evidence is there for "atheism" to be accurate and correct?

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So for some reason, you believe that it's horribly illogical for the universe not to have a cause, but if god doesn't, it's perfectly fine? I see glaringly obvious logical no-nos here.

As for atheism needing proof; the most common form of atheism (the position of most atheists on these forums) is agnostic atheism, which means they do not believe in the existence of god, but do not claim any knowledge about the existence of god. This position makes no claims, so requires no proof. Again, you need to look into this thing called logic.

[Brian37]

Nice elaborate tripe you posted. But, since science has proven it takes two sets of DNA to make a baby, your magic baby hero is kinda shot as a claim.

Next.

[TaraJo]

Wow. First message here is quite a wall of text, isn't it? Lemme give it a read and.....

The Bible(40 Different witnesses, Approx. 60 Accounts, no Contradiction, No error, Scientific Foreknowledge, Historical Foreknowledge, Scientific Accuracy, Historical Accuracy, which means whether you like it or not, these witnesses and their accounts are valid for testing in Court of Law, and as proven All Accounts are Accurate and True.)

Ok, yeah, I don't need to go past the first line to realize this guy is so full of shit it's making his eyes brown. Proving your religion 'because the Bible says so' is like me writing that my cat is God, writing it down on a piece of paper and claiming that the piece of paper is all the proof I need. So you worship your God, I'm gonna worship my Annabelle.

[KichigaiNeko]

[frankiej]

Very few people here bother to actually respond properly to people like this anymore... it is just too frustrating. It is the same shite over and over again.
If I had continued to "debate" with these religious folk then I probably would have killed something by now.

[KichigaiNeko]

Shall we?

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[Napoléon]

Why curse? what did I do to you for this treatment? did I curse and be condescending towards you like that?

No no, you're not condescending at all.

[SavedByChrist94]

Nice elaborate tripe you posted. But, since science has proven it takes two sets of DNA to make a baby, your magic baby hero is kinda shot as a claim.

Next.

So because humans can replicate something God created disproves Him? That logic is no good, also why are you trying to anger me by calling Him my magic baby hero? I know you hate God for no reason, but don't disrespect Our Father(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) like that.

I ask this, can humans create everything out of nothing?

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Aliens. It was all done by aliens.

aliens would be material beings, The Cause is an Immaterial Mind, aka God(Yahweh, who is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit)

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Why curse? what did I do to you for this treatment? did I curse and be condescending towards you like that?

No no, you're not condescending at all.

So that means proving God's(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit's) existence to be a Fact is condescending to you?

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Shall we?

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1, Science say God The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit exists, The Bible is His Word, He Loves us and that "atheism" is fairy tales.

2, "atheism" says rape is good.

Now to refute your "atheistic" bigotry equivalent to the atheist westboro baptist "church",

Science did accurately predict hurricane sandy.

People blamed it on gays, not Christianity or God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), notice your bigotry KichigaiNeko?

[downbeatplumb]

We don't hate god for the same reason that we don't any other fictional character.
Can you guess what it is?

[TaraJo]

2, "atheism" says rape is good.

How's that work? I mean, the Bible is filled with verses with God permitting and regulating rape, but atheists don't follow the Bible. How is it we're the ones who are ok with rape?