Jesus, Least Fit Moral Judge

[Esquilax]

Hi, I come from a country that has no death penalty, and I'm here to tell you that this is wrong. We lock people up who are bent on those things, and try to rehabilitate them. If they can't be, we keep them locked up. Murder might be your god's first option, but it's not the first option of a civilized society.

So prior to any crime being commited in "your forward thinking country," if someone is suspected of wanting to kill or rape someone they are "rehabilitated?" Because other wise how would you prevent the crime from happening a moment before it does?

Boy howdy, that's some pretty twisted logic. I won't make a Minority Report joke, because someone beat me to it, but I will mention that, well... you didn't really say anything about what we'd do before a crime happens, now did you? What you said was, well, there's a quote function, after all...

In that the only way to stop someone bent on raping or murdering another person is to kill them

Now, I know that you were replying to someone else there, but am I really that crazy for thinking you were talking about a post-crime, here? Because the alternative would be that you're talking about killing someone before they've committed their crime, which in the real world- and you were talking about the real world- is impossible. I'm not about to be shamed by a strawman for using the sensible interpretation of your words, Drich.

Unless you were posing this as a serious moral quandary, in which case... how is killing them before they've committed a crime any better?

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes Not all men were created equal under God. Does not a potter have the right to make what ever vessel out of the clay He wishes? For some He made for a glorious purpose, and other vessels He makes for meger tasks.
All types of vessels are needed.

Not if the pot in question is a human being, sorry to burst that bubble for you. It doesn't actually matter, as this didn't really happen, and isn't actually the case. It's important to you though, clearly. Which side of the line do you enjoy imagining yourself upon? Are you one of the lesser creations or one of the greater ones?

Indeed, and if you were honest with yourself so does every authoritive instution man has set fourth. If you do not think so, stop paying your taxes and board yourself up in your house when the tax man comes to collect and see what happens.

I don't actually pay anything in taxes, I have too many dependents and exemptions working in my favor. Not that a punishment for evading taxes would show that a government drew it's authority from might in the first place. Further, regardless of whether or not all "authoritive institutions" -did- draw said authority from might (they do not) that would not in any way imply or determine that they -should-. You've managed to pull an is/ought alongside tu quoque, impressive. The best defense of your concept you had to offer was that it was at least no worse than anyone else? Too bad, it is, and it wouldn't matter if it weren't.

He also provides attonement for those who seek it. Two sides of the same coin.

Scapegoating....... atonement, to-may-to....... to-mah-to, amiright? This won't sink in, but your god (you) offers nothing worth seeking.

Not as this culture has warped and changed the meaning of this word. No.

What culture? We (and when I say we I mean "those creatures that actually exist and feel love") get to define this word. I'm sure there's plenty of variation in our definitions and over time....but moaning about how the various definitions do not even broadly fit your god concept is pointless. What can I say, I'm sorry you were incapable of envisioning a god that could manage something so basic and commonplace as love - as we define it-. ????

To goverments. (which subsequently you do not seem to take issue with.) Like it was ok for man to kill man, but when God authorizes it then somehow it is a sin against humanity. Your a hypocrite and a builder of weak straw men.

Everytime someone mentions this you seem to simply assume that the person you're talking to is okay with killing this or that person. The lesser hobgoblins of your mind are showing Drich. It wouldn't matter if I were a hypocrite, again, tu quoque. Your argument here is that god is at least no worse than me? That's a long way to fall amigo. What straw man, don;t dissappoint me...are you telling me that your god didn't issue kill orders.......

Get your shit together.

No one does. unless your 6, but outside of the ice cream shop what authority do your parents have (those who promised you a fair shake) to ensure you are treated fairly the rest of your life?

Agreed, promises of equality are (while pleasant in principle) not present in practice anywhere we care to look. Your god, on the other hand, has the same authority as my parents did in this regard (which is none) and even less ability. Here again we see a god incapable of and unwilling to be anything more than the smallest expression of your own very human mind. Congrats.

Why do you need me to say anything? I am sure you can peice meal something together out of what has already been said. (like you did with the rest of this thread)

I like to laugh. Please continue, and as I said, regardless of my objections I wouldn't want you to stop spreading the "good word" of anti-theism.

[Surtr]

Question: What language was the NT written in?
.

If you can tell me what the "real" translation is, please do. And also point out to me the verses where it is explained how one gets out of hell and what circumstances have to be in place for one to do so.

[catfish]

Question: What language was the NT written in?
.

If you can tell me what the "real" translation is, please do. And also point out to me the verses where it is explained how one gets out of hell and what circumstances have to be in place for one to do so.

Oh no, I will NOT be spoon feeding you knowledge. That is something you must do for yourself...

Here's some help though...
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter..._Index.htm
.

[The Grand Nudger]

IOW, Cat does not possess such knowledge.

[catfish]

IOW, Cat does not possess such knowledge.

Just because you don't have the ability to do your own research and make up your own mind does NOT mean everyone else is a sheeple like you...
.

[The Grand Nudger]

"I totally know stuff, I'm just not telling - and you're a poopy head for calling me out"

[catfish]

Again, whacking off has more substance than anything you could express through text...
.

[Brian37]

Again, whacking off has more substance than anything you could express through text...
.

Said the apologist.

I agree, whacking off is much more useful than selling superstition. So why don't you do more of that and be less gullible in your own life? But actually would not advise that to the superstitious because they would simply replace one obsession with another and mistake sex as license to be abusive to oneself and to others.

---

IOW, Cat does not possess such knowledge.

Just because you don't have the ability to do your own research and make up your own mind does NOT mean everyone else is a sheeple like you...
.

Please explain to us how we are sheep? Because we don't swallow invisible friend claims as a default position? Or because we value evidence before adapting a position?

All the word "atheist" means is that it is the "off" position, on the issue of claims of god/s. It says nothing about our political positions, our nationalities, or class, or personal likes or dislikes. Atheists are just as diverse in our lives as any other label. We are not a gang like politics and religions can be.

[Drich]

Beside that, I was referring to the "forever" part... The Bible does NOT state "forever"...

Matthew 25:46 ESV
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


e·ter·nal
[ih-tur-nl]
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal ): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.

The punishment or Hell is eternal, the question is, Are we?

Look at verse 41 same chapter:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Clearly Hell was meant for Satan and his fallen brother to be punished for eternity. whether Man shares that fate will ultimatly be upto God.

---

Boy howdy, that's some pretty twisted logic. I won't make a Minority Report joke, because someone beat me to it, but I will mention that, well... you didn't really say anything about what we'd do before a crime happens, now did you? What you said was, well, there's a quote function, after all...

Actually IN the only way to Stop them. Meaning it is a preventive measure Not a punishing one. Punishment (like jail) comes after the Crime To stop would indicate the crime had not been commited yet. Meaning If Someone were trying to kill or rape you, would you kill them to stop them?

In that the only way to stop someone bent on raping or murdering another person is to kill them

Now, I know that you were replying to someone else there, but am I really that crazy for thinking you were talking about a post-crime, here?

Only if you ignore the context of the message to preach about how great a country you use to live in.

Because the alternative would be that you're talking about killing someone before they've committed their crime, which in the real world- and you were talking about the real world- is impossible.

Seriously? Do they have movies where you come from? Outside of Romantic comedies Most movies have an element of life and death in them. In most their is a struggle before the victim dies. They put this in movies because to one degree or another it happens in real life. I asked Missy if she were in such a struggle would she kill someone to save herself. Because She said it is never ok to Murder/kill.

I'm not about to be shamed by a strawman for using the sensible interpretation of your words, Drich.

You jumped the gun plain and simple. Jumped the gun...

Unless you were posing this as a serious moral quandary, in which case... how is killing them before they've committed a crime any better?

after my last effort do you still have this question?