Divine Revelation

[Surtr]

Your A/S/K strategy has a problem: there are many atheists on here who were raised as Christians and stayed Christians for a large period of their life. Why were they not answered?

"Because they weren't trying hard enough."

How would you know that?

[FallentoReason]

The whole A/S/K thing is like Big Brother in 1984 where the guy is getting tortured towards the end. I can't quite remember the dialogue but I somewhat remember the point of it all...

Torturer: "what is 2 + 2?"
Victim: "4"
*torture*
T: "what is 2 + 2?!"
V: "FOUR!"
*torture*
...
T: "what is 2 + 2?"
V: "what do you want it to be?"
T: "very good"

***

True Christian™: "You aren't believing hard enough"
"Rational" Christian: "I have tried my hardest!"
*no revelation/communication with God*
T.C: "You still aren't trying hard enough"
R.C: "I am trying my hardest!"
*nothing*
...
T.C: "You aren't trying hard enough"
R.C: "I don't have to try. I believe it to happen"

In the case of the Rational Christian, the torture comes from within. Because their overall world view is that God can speak to them, the pain comes from not being able to achieve that dialogue. I know this to be true from my own experience. Therefore, once the frustration is too much, the brain short circuits (like the Victim... who stops thinking mathematically and just wants ANY answer to a logical problem) and viola, you now have flung the door open to all sorts of delusions, like the Victim, because rationality has been left behind.

[catfish]

In regards to the OP, the best I can come up with are the clinical studies involving DMT. The subjects were given a dosage of DMT and their brain activity was recorded. A number of the subjects relayed experiences of what they descibed as spiritual in nature while their brain activity was isolated to a specific location.
.

[FallentoReason]

In regards to the OP, the best I can come up with are the clinical studies involving DMT. The subjects were given a dosage of DMT and their brain activity was recorded. A number of the subjects relayed experiences of what they descibed as spiritual in nature while their brain activity was isolated to a specific location.
.

Do you think being on acid or getting high would be much different to a dosage of DMT?

[catfish]

In regards to the OP, the best I can come up with are the clinical studies involving DMT. The subjects were given a dosage of DMT and their brain activity was recorded. A number of the subjects relayed experiences of what they descibed as spiritual in nature while their brain activity was isolated to a specific location.
.

Do you think being on acid or getting high would be much different to a dosage of DMT?

It's hard to say as I have not tried any dosage of DMT that my own body has not produced. I'm also unaware of any brain activity studies done while on acid.
.

[Brian37]

In regards to the OP, the best I can come up with are the clinical studies involving DMT. The subjects were given a dosage of DMT and their brain activity was recorded. A number of the subjects relayed experiences of what they descibed as spiritual in nature while their brain activity was isolated to a specific location.
.

"Spiritual" is a bullshit word, I do not like it even when Sam Harris uses it.

All "spiritual" means is that your brain activity in response to input and physical conditions cause an intense reaction.

Why in this day and age when we have science do people cling to woo? We don't have to be robots or lose our emotions just because we accept reality.

[Drich]

Your A/S/K strategy has a problem: there are many atheists on here who were raised as Christians and stayed Christians for a large period of their life.

Being apart of a religion is akin to being apart of a social club, like the lions or the rotary club. Just because your a member of a social group that does God related stuff does not mean one has a relationship with God.

Why were they not answered?

How can you be sure any of the A/S/K?

"Because they weren't trying hard enough."

In words far wiser than my own: "Try not, Do or do not, their is no try."

How would you know that?

Mt7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I know because I learned how to inspect 'fruit.'

---

The whole A/S/K thing is like Big Brother in 1984 where the guy is getting tortured towards the end...

..T.C: "You aren't trying hard enough"
R.C: "I don't have to try. I believe it to happen"

In the case of the Rational Christian, the torture comes from within. Because their overall world view is that God can speak to them, the pain comes from not being able to achieve that dialogue. I know this to be true from my own experience. Therefore, once the frustration is too much, the brain short circuits (like the Victim... who stops thinking mathematically and just wants ANY answer to a logical problem) and viola, you now have flung the door open to all sorts of delusions, like the Victim, because rationality has been left behind.

It's not about 'believeing hard enough." It about simple obediance. For Christ tells us all we need is the Faith of a mustard seed, and God will move any mountain set before you, If you simply ask in his Name.

Understand God is not granting random wishes for you. The Kione word for mountain was used to describe an insurmountable obstical. For you it is 'proof.' In otherwords God is offering you the 'Mountain of Proof' you need to establish and maintain belief if you do as He instructs. It starts with A/S/K for a measure of the Holy Spirit. In this gift, one of the first manfestations of the Spirit will be Spiritual discernement. This often comes in the way of sin identification. In otherwords you will be able to see the sins in your own life that are keeping you from a relationship with God.

Christ Tells us All of the Laws of the prophets can be summed up in our two Greatest commands. Love the Lord your God with all of your being, and Love your neighbor as yourself. I want to focous on our Greatest command. Love your Lord God with you whole being, you Mind, Heart, Soul your Strength. This means nothing is to come between you and the God you love. This includes sin. So by giving you the ablity to identify sin God is asking that you repent or turn from what you currently hold tightly in your heart. For God can not or rather will not occupy The space in your heart that you have given over to your sin of choice.

If you are faithful to the measure of the holy Spirit God has given you, and you learn to repent or turn from this sin, You will be given greater and Greater portions of the Holy Spirit. He will continue to do so till your cup or capasity house the Holy Spirit is over flowing.

However If you are not faithful to the Measure of the Holy Spirit you have been given, then what you have will be taken from you and given to the one who was faithful. Leaving you worse off than if you never knew God at all. That said know that not being faithful to the Spiritual gifts you were once given is not the unpardonable sin. Their is forgiveness if you will simply A/S/K.
It's just (As I am sure you are all to aware) harder to go back once you left. Their is an issue of pride to now deal with on top of whatever you could not let go of to begin with.

[CapnAwesome]

"Spiritual" is a bullshit word, I do not like it even when Sam Harris uses it.

Sam Harris strikes me as someone who has smoked a whole lot of pot in his day.

[Surtr]

Just because your a member of a social group that does God related stuff does not mean one has a relationship with God.

You're ignoring the problem and assuming that every former Christian wasn't trying hard enough.

How can you be sure any of the A/S/K?

Once again, how can you claim that out of hundreds of thousands of converted Christians, none were seeking hard enough?

I know because I learned how to inspect 'fruit.'

You know the mind of every human on this earth?

It about simple obediance.

Yes. And there are people who have obeyed God their entire lives and realized their prayers have never been answered.

[Drich]

[quote='Surtr' pid='387627' dateline='1358486802']
[quote]You're ignoring the problem and assuming that every former Christian wasn't trying hard enough.[/quote]Again, Their is no "try." Either one submits or he does not.

[quote]Once again, how can you claim that out of hundreds of thousands of converted Christians, none were seeking hard enough?[/quote]It's not about seeking Hard enough. It is about following the Path laid out before us as God illustrates.

[quote]You know the mind of every human on this earth? [/quote]I know the people I Speak with well enough to have an idea.

[Quote]
Yes. And there are people who have obeyed God their entire lives and realized their prayers have never been answered.
[/quote]

Petition? Or Actual Prayer?
God is not obligated to answer any petition. God always answers prayer.

Do you know the difference between the two?
http://atheistforums.org/thread-14138.html